Most of my work is commercial. Rock club maintenance, cast iron and copper pipes, turd-cutters, faucets. Grease traps, big griddles, bar sinks.

A residential customer had me replace a couple of furnaces in November. Now he wants the AC swapped. I've done all my homework, spoken with the Goodman MFG people, and have an EPA-certified buddy to help.

I'm working on my Type II EPA license.

We're going to pull the charges back into the two condensers; Buddy'll save the condensers for neighborhood donor units. I want to use my own gauges on this job, become familiar with their performance.

There are a lot of gauge sets out there. Is high quality to be avoided on a set which might only get used a couple dozen times over the next decade? Because the hoses will not last that long?

Can someone recommend a particular set which will fit my needs?

Ritchie 41 and JB Industries M2 manifolds are good choices that will last.

I'll get ya some links and more information later.

Both local shops promote the Yellow Jacket 42001 manifold (which is the Ritchie 41?). One sells it with hoses and suggests an upgraded hose. The second will sell manifold-only and the 22984 hose kit (with low loss anti-blowback fittings). $124 + tax.

It is a back-up and may only be used to monitor the pulling of all the R-22 back into the condenser (twice, as there are two condensers).

If that was all I was doing with it, or any model I bought, do you think I'd still want to flush the unit with nitrogen before using it with R-410A?

What if it was not flushed for two years?

I just bought This one. I feel it is the best manifold for the money from my research. I bought it for my mini split install.

Be warned, appearantly yellow jacket has some issues and this set is backordered until mid July from what the vendor told me.

First off, if you're going to take the EPA test, you might as well get the universal type. This way you're covered for everything but automotive.

Now as far as the gauges go, having 4 sets is the way to go. (2) 2-valve manifolds for service and (2) 4-valve manifolds for installs and any service which requires a vacuum to be pulled.

I don't mix refrigerants with different oils with any equipment. Separate gauge sets, separate recovery machines, tanks, etc. So that means 2 sets, 1 for R22 and another set for R410A.

You can get by with a 2-valve manifold and add adapters to add ports for the charging hose, vacuum hose, etc. But the 4-valve units make things so much quicker and easier.

The JB 26133 4-valve manifold is my favorite. Features ball valves which make things quicker.
4 port manifolds feature a larger diameter vacuum hose to aid in pulling faster evacuations. Will allow you to hook-up a micron gauge at the same time to monitor the vacuum level. Then you can switch that line over to the refrigerant tank for charging.

Hoses come in standard, ball valve and "anti blow back, Secure Seal, or SealRight fittings". Different names for a fitting that seals to the port before the core is depressed and opens the hose/port connection at the same time. Then when you unscrew it, it releases the core and seals the hose before the second seal comes off the port.

I prefer any of the anti blow back hose fittings and would never go back to the standard or ball valve type hoses.
NRP has good hoses, I prefer 60" hoses with the anti blow back fittings on one end. Which is all you need since the other end stays connected to the manifold.

NAB60RBY is a set of three 60" Blue, Yellow and Red with the anti blow fittings. On sale for 81
https://www.trutechtools.com/NAB60RBY

42001 Ritchie manifold only 22, 404A and 410A. On sale for 58.61
http://www.testequipmentdepot....ZEAQYASABEgI5MPD_BwE

22225 Patriot JB manifold only 22, 404A and 410A. On sale for 79.95
https://www.comfortgurus.com/j...XEAYYASABEgLvQ_D_BwE

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Excam_Man,

quote:

Originally posted by shiftyvtec:
I just bought This one.

This is probably the unit Vendor I has back-ordered "On tomorrow's truck". Vendor II has the individual manifold plus 48" hoses with SealRight fittings. The second guy was giving me prices competitive with the internet; when he heard of my usual plumbing supply house, I guess he went right to Tier II discounts.

It is a back-up for now, to ensure nothing keeps us from getting the charges pulled back into the condensers, as much as I'd like to go into full-acquisition mode. My buddy was complaining about his hoses, so having a new set on the job will take uncertainty out of the equation.

Thanks again, Excam, for the descriptions of pulling a vacuum, the micron gauge, and switching to a refrigerant tank for charging. A second contractor loaded with all the gizmos may be doing the installs after all the prep is done. Bet he has every gadget.

Getting back to the nitrogen blow-out, if I'm using the gauges to ensure the entire charge gets pulled back into the condenser(s), do you think R-22 oil is going to migrate into the hoses or gauges? Can I blow the red/blue out thru the yellow with nitrogen (or CO2?), as the supply house guys claim I can do?

All that's needed is the low side gauge, to insure the unit is pumped down before closing the service valve.

As far as the oil goes, for what you're doing, there's not going to be much oil in the hose. You can blow out the gauge set with N2, but there's going to be a small amount of residual oil left behind.
This is the reasoning behind changing lisesets when installing a new system. To insure its sized properly, clean and leak free.

Sure they make kits to blow them out, but why not spend a little extra and have a clean, new line set to insure maximum lifespan.

The linesets are definitely being replaced.

Referencing N2, I refer to the manifold hoses. The same hose which monitors the pressure while the R22 system is pumping itself into the condenser will some day be used in an R-410A application. You can blow out the gauge set with N2, but there's going to be a small amount of residual oil left behind.

I was curious how much R22 oil will make its way into the hose.

Thanks for the "low side only required" tip.

It sounds like having a single manifold low-pressure gauge would work for the purpose of safely cutting the old systems out of the way. If I was using a single manifold low-pressure gauge for demo purposes only, mixing oils becomes moot?

All you need to pump down a system is a low pressure gauge, a 1/8 NPT female x 1/4 flare male adapter and a refrigerant hose.
The hose is only needed to make the connection easier, as the gauge will not normally fit close to the valve.

Here's the adapter.
https://www.whiteheadindustria...ZEAQYBCABEgK0MfD_BwE

This way you won't contaminate your gauge set.

There's always the Ritchie single manifold, if you want a hanger and the capability to connect a tank, etc.
https://yellowjacket.com/produ...ngle-gauge-manifold/

Final question

Would low side pressure of R410A damage the Yellow Jacket 40342, which is designed for R22 pressures?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yello...-40342-/232797615891

If you're going to use it for pump down only, you should be ok. The gauge is protected to 350 lbs. which correlates at about 108 degrees F for 410.

This gauge is for 22, 404A and 410A.
https://www.amazon.com/Yellow-...egrees/dp/B00159TFU6

As you see it goes up to 350 lbs working and protected to 500 lbs.

This is another reason you want refrigerant specific gauges. So the working pressure is in the mid range of the gauge for better accuracy.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:
https://www.amazon.com/Yellow-...egrees/dp/B00159TFU6

I got the job. "I will not get other bids" is what I heard today. Price and terms agreed.

The linked gauge is ¼" flare?
And a standard 'blue' hose can be bought ¼" flare by Schrader?
Is the Schrader ⅛" NPT?

I'll use this for pump down, practice for starting a job immediately, a day ahead of the rest of the crew, when I sell a job.

What do you think of the Schrader core pullers which allow one to more quickly establish vacuum. The tech I'm using, friend of 29 years, said he talked to an HVAC buddy who says they are difficult to use. The young buck HVAC hotshot who is getting cut out of this job because he wants $800/hour, swears by them, doing a vacuum in 4 minutes ...

quote:

Originally posted by Woodman:

The linked gauge is ¼" flare?
And a standard 'blue' hose can be bought ¼" flare by Schrader?
Is the Schrader ⅛" NPT?

You need to look back at my previous post. The one with the whitehead adapter link.
Gauges are 1/8" NPT
Hoses are 1/4" Flare

quote:

What do you think of the Schrader core pullers which allow one to more quickly establish vacuum. The tech I'm using, friend of 29 years, said he talked to an HVAC buddy who says they are difficult to use. The young buck HVAC hotshot who is getting cut out of this job because he wants $800/hour, swears by them, doing a vacuum in 4 minutes ...

4 minutes my ass. What brand of micron gauge does this whipper snapper own?
At what level does he consider to be a proper vacuum on a system?

Ask him if he knows what happens to moisture when a vacuum is pulled to quickly.

Having a properly sized JB vac pump is very important, as is good equipment.
http://www.jbind.com/technical/faq-pumps.aspx
http://www.jbind.com/technical/faq-micron-gauges.aspx

Excam is right on in his assessment.

4 minutes is not the way to go. If a vacuum is pulled too quickly, the moisture in the system freezes in place, and is not removed.

If your HVAC buddy has issues with core removal tools.... well...

I personally remove the cores.

Pressure test the system with Nitrogen.

Release pressure, and pull a vacuum.

Break vacuum with Nitrogen.

Pull a vacuum.

Break vacuum with Nitrogen.

Reinstall Cores.

Pull a vacuum to a absolute minimum 500 microns, almost without exception it is under 200.

If it is not, then either there is still moisture, a leak, problem with hoses, oil needs changed in Vacuum pump etc.

ALWAYS use a micron guage. NEVER go by time...

I am curious if your HVAC buddy finds it too cumbersome to purge your linesets with Nitrogen while brazing?

Shortcuts on install WILL affect your system and cause problems.

My friend has three nitrogen tanks, does the flushing. I'm not usually on the HVAC jobs, but he just texted that he does three flushes. He said the same thing about pulling a fast vacuum. "What about the moisture?"

He uses a micron gauge and says it usually take 2.5 - 3 hours. As yet, he does not pull the Schrader core but I'm probably going to buy him the tool, along with a new set of gauges and hoses, and a single gauge with hose to use for pulling the charge back into the condenser.

I'll get pics of SpeedRacer's gear over the next few months ...

Thanks, guys! I'm not doing AC work by myself, just want to be a little more familiar going into the job.

quote:

Originally posted by Dreamerx4:

Shortcuts on install WILL affect your system and cause problems.

This can not be repeated enough....