quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
My opinion, loaded means ammo inside the firearm.
Sidesaddle, doesn't really seem any different than carrying a reload (mag or speedloader), just happens to be attached to the gun.

But, I'd check with state/local laws to be certain, obviously.

quote:

Originally posted by Oat_Action_Man:
PA law is difficult on this score, especially since the scenario you describe hasn't been clarified like firearms with a detachable magazine were clarified.

According to the definitions of the PA Uniform Firearms Act:

A firearm is loaded if the firing chamber, the nondetachable magazine or, in the case of a revolver, any of the chambers of the cylinder contain ammunition capable of being fired. In the case of a firearm which utilizes a detachable magazine, the term shall mean a magazine suitable for use in said firearm which magazine contains such ammunition and has been inserted in the firearm or is in the same container or, where the container has multiple compartments, the same compartment thereof as the firearm. If the magazine is inserted into a pouch, holder, holster or other protective device that provides for a complete and secure enclosure of the ammunition, then the pouch, holder, holster or other protective device shall be deemed to be a separate compartment. [The last sentence of that definition was added relatively recently, I think.]

I would most definitely err on the side of, yes, a gun with a mounted, full side saddle would be deemed "loaded", even if that's not explicit per the definition of "loaded". That they have gone to the lengths of defining a long gun as unloaded if you keep a magazine in a separate pouch suggests that they mean not just source of feed, but source of ammunition, IMO. A loaded shotgun card may not feed the gun like the detachable box magazine, but it is used to provide ammunition that YOU can feed into the gun's magazine.

IANAL, but all the gun lawyers in PA I've talked to or been around when this topic came up have said "ammo in a separate compartment" for long guns.

Furthermore, the absurdity of the fact that you can carry an NFA SBR or SBS actually loaded with a concealed carry permit in your car just doubles down on the confusion. Because, according to the law, NFA items are "firearms" like pistols and revolvers, but non-NFA rifles/shotguns are not "firearms".

PS: I wouldn't rely on being in rural PA to protect you. The "loaded long gun" stuff is actually connected to PA game laws, where it is already illegal to hunt from a vehicle. A game commission officer could get you on that score, I think, even if you're not hunting. I believe there are two separate violations for "loaded gun in vehicle", one in the game code and one in the firearms code. Don't quote me on that, though, since I haven't tracked that down.

quote:

According to the definitions of the PA Uniform Firearms Act:

A firearm is loaded if the firing chamber, the nondetachable magazine or, in the case of a revolver, any of the chambers of the cylinder contain ammunition capable of being fired. In the case of a firearm which utilizes a detachable magazine, the term shall mean a magazine suitable for use in said firearm which magazine contains such ammunition and has been inserted in the firearm or is in the same container or, where the container has multiple compartments, the same compartment thereof as the firearm. If the magazine is inserted into a pouch, holder, holster or other protective device that provides for a complete and secure enclosure of the ammunition, then the pouch, holder, holster or other protective device shall be deemed to be a separate compartment. [The last sentence of that definition was added relatively recently, I think.]