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Member |
When I first saw this story I had two thoughts go through my head:
You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you're not capable of great violence, you're not peaceful, you're harmless. NRA Benefactor/Patriot Member | ||
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Void Where Prohibited |
Didn't they determine that about 40% of the masks flown in by the NE Patriots from China were defective? Way to go, Apple. "If Gun Control worked, Chicago would look like Mayberry, not Thunderdome" - Cam Edwards | |||
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Member |
So they delivered 600,000 good masks? Way to go indeed. Gee whiz, people, everyone, and I mean everyone, has been manufacturing everything in China for the last three decades. We can go though every self-righteous person in the United States and find a house full of Chinese made products. The very keyboard you are typing your anti-Chinese rant on was made in China. The ex post facto shaming of every single company in the world has got to stop. Hopefully, in the future we can have a more diverse supply chain for nearly every product. But seriously, everybody is guilty of wanting the cheapest products. Demand not that events should happen as you wish; but wish them to happen as they do happen, and you will go on well. -Epictetus | |||
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| Ignored facts still exist |
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Member |
Speak for yourself. I posted this on another thread: With several large exceptions, it is quite possible to avoid buying products from the PRC. I'll touch the exceptions first: Computers Phones TVs Small appliances Luggage Just looking around my house, I'll go down a quick list of what I have, and where it's made: Guns - US/Europe Furniture - US/Vietnam/Indonesia Bedding - US/Europe/India Small Appliances - Vietnam, Malaysia, some China (Instant Pot) Cutlery - Europe Clothing - US/Europe/Vietnam/Indonesia Tools - US/Europe With those exceptions, it's fairly easy to avoid Chinese garbage | |||
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| Member |
It’s good that you are aware of where the products you buy are made, but your list is more of an exception. What about most toys for children, or most decorations on people’s walls? The soap dispenser sitting next to me is Chinese. I bet your China is made in, well, China. And so on... Even those goods you listed have Chinese sourced materials. Those Vietnamese appliances are built with Chinese steel and the clothing with cloth that came from Chinese mills. My point is that people are being sanctimonious about a company that is trying to do a good thing, even though there are Chinese products in all of our lives. All of the west needs to own this, not any one particular company. Demand not that events should happen as you wish; but wish them to happen as they do happen, and you will go on well. -Epictetus | |||
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Member |
Not me. I almost always buy local or from a small business when it is an option, even if it costs me 15-20% more. I actively try to avoid Chinese products and if an American made version of equal features is available I gladly pay more. I actually feel more pride in ownership for things that I pay more for. Similarly I feel more pride in ownership in something with which I’ve paid a premium for customer service. I personally detest China as a country for the totalitarian dictatorship that they are and I have an enormous dislike for parts of Chinese culture such as their non belief in intellectual property which predates Mao. Accordingly I avoid supporting China whenever possible. Also in general terms I find I appreciate things more when I buy what I want from where I want instead of buying from the cheapest possible source. I feel more in control when I don’t have to squeeze every penny from most of my purchases. “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” | |||
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| Member |
Of course, it will be impossible to completely eliminate Chinese products. My point is that it is fairly easy to avoid buying “cheap Chinese junk”, and instead focus on a quality > cost matrix, and eliminating as much as possible the consumption of Chinese goods. By the way, my kid’s toys (she’s 2) are made in Germany (Playmobil) Mexico (Fisher Price), and her stuffed animals are made in China and Korea. My china is made in Spain, glasses in Germany and France. My family left a totalitarian/communist country, I do take this quite seriously. This isn’t a dig at anyone else, but more of a hope that others will follow suit. I’m of the “buy once, cry once” mentality, and I very rarely have to buy a replacement for something as they don’t break. | |||
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| Member |
I couldn’t agree more. I will pay a lot more for non Chinese stuff. Especially tools. Demand not that events should happen as you wish; but wish them to happen as they do happen, and you will go on well. -Epictetus | |||
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| Member |
Since I was the OP, let me add that I am, and have been since the late 1970s, a big Apple fanboi. I have currently in my home
I am not denigrating Apple. In fact, I bought Apple stock at $16.84/share and it's best the best investment I ever made! I am more than likely going to get myself an Apple face mask (when this is all over and they start appearing on eBay). My intent was not to slam Apple as much as it was to point out the dependence we've gotten to products made in China. You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you're not capable of great violence, you're not peaceful, you're harmless. NRA Benefactor/Patriot Member | |||
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| Shit don't mean shit |
Wow, I am seriously behind the times. The only Apple product I own is a single 12 year old iPod. I'm not anti-Apple, I just don't buy much new electronic stuff. That's probably $10,000 worth of stuff! | |||
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| Member |
I'm doing my best to keep Apple's stock price up.  You can't truly call yourself "peaceful" unless you are capable of great violence. If you're not capable of great violence, you're not peaceful, you're harmless. NRA Benefactor/Patriot Member | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money  |
Which is the same point made by others in the coronavirus thread. "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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Member |
Sane here. I think the main issue is Americans like cheap shit so they can buy lots of cheap shit. I'd rather mfr'ing be pulled back to the US, prices go up some, and I will pay it. I'm not incessantly buying shit so it wouldn't affect me. What am I doing? I'm talking to an empty telephone | |||
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Nullus Anxietas |
The point many are missing in all these anti-made-in-China screeds is that the U.S. is not a land unto itself. Like it or not: We have a world economy. US manufacturers, with their (stockholders') demand for ever-increasing returns, plus employees demanding ever-greater wages and benefits, has rendered much manufacturing in the US uncompetitive in a global market. Couple that with the fact that our youth, for many years now, has had it drilled into their heads that to be "successful" in life they have to have a college degree. That only losers who can't do any better take manual labor jobs. So, even where decent-paying jobs exist, employers often can't find Americans willing to take them. All this drives manufacturing overseas. "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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| Void Where Prohibited |
My point is if it's already known that four out of ten masks coming out of China are defective, why are they going to that source again? "If Gun Control worked, Chicago would look like Mayberry, not Thunderdome" - Cam Edwards | |||
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Member |
I’m with you, but I just don’t see it. Drive by a Harbor Freight store and see how busy they are on a Saturday. I even had someone tell me on a forum they “didn’t give a shit” where their tools were made. ——————————————— The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Psalm 14:1 | |||
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| Nullus Anxietas |
"Made in China" doesn't always mean the same thing. It is possible to acquire good product made in China, providing good manufacturing quality control is maintained. "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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| Member |
Seriously?! Do you know the effort needed to identify the defective ones? And the probability certain failure prone ones actually get to people who depend on them. There is absolutely no way one should view a 40% failure rate in a positive light in view of the targeted use of these. “So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.” | |||
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| The Ice Cream Man |
Ensigmatic, lots of experts in dealing with them, disagree... From my, very limited, experience in dealing with Han, I cannot see them ever being reliable. The Soviets had the same issue. As do the Cubans. Party members, simply lack the moral integrity* to be trusted with dangerous/serious work. (I'm not saying there are not moral Atheists. I know some. I'm saying anyone who's achieved position in a Communist system, is amoral.) *I knew some Belarussians who were decent people, but they had their position as the grandchildren of the aristocracy who chose the Soviets over the NAZIs, rather than from their parents working up the party ranks... Still not "normal", but similar to other aristos I've met, who still had retained some power. | |||
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