Hi, I don't post often but I am in need of some assistance and I have always been impressed by the knowledge of the folks here.

I am having a custom house built in Texas (Comal County)and I am having a conflict with the builder over what is acceptable for the roof rafter tails and soffets. Basically there are numerous rafters that have been "scabbed" to extend out and meet the cornice board and soffet. I am being told this is just cosmetics and not worry about it. Unfortunately the building code is a little vague in this area, but I know this does not meet good engineering practice, and I am sure it is compromising the strength to safely support all loads (wind, gutter weight, snow, etc...).

Basically anywhere they have cut the rafters short they are nailing one 2x6 at the top of the outer wall to meet the cornice. From everything I can find this is terrible, but does anyone have a definite source I can cite to refute their claim?

I attached a picture that (hopefully) shows what I am talking about. The roof has 24" overhangs and will have a metal roof.

Lt, can’t see the pic as it’s very small, if the builder isn’t giving you the answer or you don’t believe him. Call the local inspector or send him a few pics.

Seems to me that scabbing a longer tail to the rafter tail might not be able to handle wind load requirements for your area.

I’m in temple and I didn’t see one rafter scabbed like you describe in any of the 400 plus homes in my subdivision (I was the first one in the area) and we get some gusts around 60mph

And I’m tell him to stop work until the inspector gives his say so.

The best advice I can give you as an engineer is to hire one familiar with residential construction in the State of Texas. Just driving nails and sandwiching lumber is not equivalent to a structural member. That’s just shoddy workmanship, period!

You can also check with your county building code enforcement official if you have concerns.

Looks awfully slipshod to me. And holy crap that's some lousy looking lumber. No way I'd use something with that much bow for a rafter.

I'd tell 'em do it right with good lumber or you're fired. But that's just me.

I built my house, garage, and helped several others. I am not an expert!
Looking at the warped lumber, and the scabbed rafters, shows me that the builder(s) have no pride in their work!
In my area any carpenter worth anything is booked out for quite a while, not sure if you have the same issue.
If I could, I’d be looking for another builder.

Dang - I wouldn't be happy w/ that for a production house (even a higher priced one), let alone a custom house.

I built houses, and that would not make it past lunchtime...


Put your concerns in writing and provide to the builder ASAP. (if you are signing off on draws or paying on % milestones, tell him you just put him on hold until it is resolved to acceptable standards and keep copies to present to the building inspector.

Contact the inspector and ask him to do a walkthrough with you.

Most have various milestones that are inspected, and getting this addressed before the rest of the sheathing is installed.

The "bow" in the rafters may not be a big concern since they are not supported, but I had stringers running perpendicular and/or blocking to provide straight members before laying sheathing, but I see none on the back side, so I would put eyeballs on it. But everything else folks addressed, being correct. (scabs are for pickin')

And unless you have verbiage in your contract, I would make frequent visits, and take pics of everything, and ask the builder/superintendent questions on anything that concerns you.

Do not address the subs, that can get you into a "he said/she said" and make communication very difficult.
(Except to smile and say "good day!") Unless you are "the job boss" and managing things to that level.

(it's been nearly 25-30 years, so YMMV)

I don’t know anything about construction but it looks like the Three Stooges were working on that to me.

Codes vary greatly from city to city let alone state to state so checking locally as was mentioned earlier is what you should do.

Scabbing is acceptable in certain instances and while it's difficult to see from the photo they appear to be short only by a couple of inches while the scabbed pieces are anchored a couple feet so the cantilevered portion is only those couple inches. Make sense? My guess is they'll pass code.

Yes, it looks like crap and in a custom home I'd be very unhappy. I'd be pushing hard to have all those cut short replaced especially since they're only 2 x 6. There's enough blocking, backing, and fire stop needed in a house that they can be cut up and used elsewhere.

It appears to be a boxed-in soffit so the builder is technically correct about it being cosmetic. It won't be seen when it's finished. Still... pride in one's product matters.

It could be perspective but if you bring someone out to look then ask them about the sway brace running up to the ridge. The angle appears very shallow. Usually they're 45 degrees plus or minus a certain number of degrees. Again, codes vary.

FWIW,

Dan

Thanks for the responses so far. Here are a couple of more pictures from the garage rafters. The first picture shows a completely broken rafter, and the second shows what I guess is their interpretation of a fix. My biggest concern is this is getting decked over and will not be visible to the inspector.

And check out the spacing on the soffet ladder overhang (far right side second pic). What the crap?

Keep in mind this house is $1M+ and the result of 30 years of work and savings. So frustrating.

get an inspector on it, things like that could cost you more in insurance if the roof doesn't meet wind code, that doesn't look good, bowed and spliced...

^^^^ NO FUCKING WAY.

Call the inspector and ask for a show up after sending him those pics.

^^^|

Yeah, it gets worse the longer you look.

First pic was concerning, not just the short pieces sistered to the trusses you mentioned, but if you look at the birds mouth cuts they're not even sitting on the wall header. One looks like it has shims of some sort.

The broken truss though looks like they cut a birds mouth on a knot and it cracked.

I think you need to fire that builder asap.

I'd have a hard time allowing someone who thought this was acceptable, to do any further work.
The lack of pride, craftsmanship and material quality is sickening.

Seeing this on a $1mil+ home, I'd sure hate to see their work on a $100k home.

I wouldn't hire them to build a dog house!

I own a custom home construction company (well until I sold it recently) and still hold a Class A license in Virginia.I have been building homes in the $750K to 1.5M range for over 37 years.

As said above, codes do vary by state (and sometimes by county) so I am not prepared to condemn the situation as I’m not familiar with your local code. Having said that, the code is actually nationwide and allows for some local variation due to factors like earthquake (California) and wind (Florida) events.

In Virginia, attaching a flyer to extend the rafter tail (not trusses) is allowed but they are always run up and “sistered” to the rafter, not just butted up against the house which allows the soffit to support the live and dead load required. “Butting” the tail to the rafter will not allow proper support.

In Virginia you cannot exceed 12” (I think) for a soffit ladder like what you showed. If we have a longer overhang, we build a wider ladder that replaces the end rafter (or truss) and secures back to the the preceding one. The “ladder rungs” can be 24”oc but no more as appears to be the case in your picture.

It may be early but I don’t see any rafter tie downs either.

I’d be happy to look at your plans if you want to send them to me for review..

quote:

That’s just shoddy workmanship, period!

Looks like # 3 lumber also.

I know nothing about home construction, either, but that screams W.T.F.????

Looks to me like maybe he locked in a price for your job and got caught in the rapid increase in materials prices so is scabbing things together with cheaper lumber rather than buying premium SPF long enough for full length rafters.

Everyone covered this pretty well. Id also point out that the roof framing isn't connected to the ceiling framing at all. And the roof framing at the gable end should come back to the next rafter in. That part of the roof will sag big time.

If the roof is that bad I'd be worried about the wall framing as well. It needs to be straight and plumb, the drywall and finishers won't "take care of it" if the framing is lousy.
'
You need to halt that job right now. Don't let them try to cover it up with the decking.