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Should we still spend ten times as much on another material because it's been around longer?
If it keeps people alive at depth, yea...maybe we should.

My favorite leftist tactic when it comes to quoting! You forgot the sentence in front of it. Let me help:

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What if it turns out that carbon fiber can be used safely? Should we still spend ten times as much on another material because it's been around longer?

Their other two subs are only rated to 1000 FEET for one and 1146 FEET for the other.

Couple the cost cutting: to have an all steel or titanium hull sub means more weight which would have required the CEO to get a much bigger support vessel. Per the quote from the AP article posted on the previous page, the CEO was bragging about the discount he got on the carbon fiber....as it was past its shelf life for aeronautic use. Now add in the drive to use "off the shelf" items, adds up to people dying. But I bet their ESG score was top notch with Blackrock with "no 50 year old white guys" doing the engineering. It will be interesting if there were other people who left and signed NDAs due to their concerns.

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What if it turns out that carbon fiber can be used safely?

Well, it's possible, but we may never know. Somebody would need to build a full scale final design, and properly test it, which has NEVER been done before! Testing ought to be defined such as those suggested by the 50 Y.O. white guys/subject matter experts in the deep water submersible industry, the Manned Underwater Vehicles committee of the Marine Technology Society. That group of industry experts implored the Ocean Gate CEO to do such testing...He chose implosion instead, and he chose EXTREMELY poorly!

I'm waiting for the book.

Doubtless there will be quite a few.

Anyhow, today I looked closely at at nice new air rifle that had a carbon-wrapped air bottle. The owner told me that it was wrapped around in inner aluminium bottle. The max internal load for THIS bottle is 200 BAR - 2500 psi-ish.

Nowadays you can buy carbon-fibre-wrapped rifle barrels - again they are there to make the barrel lighter, but would not necessarily contain the gases generated by a bursting barrel.

I've not seen any uses for a carbon fibre to withstand external pressure, only internal pressure, and it seems that even then,it's internally supported by either high-quality alloy of some kind, or barrel steel. I've not seen if the 'Titan' pressure vessel was internally supported though. Anybody know?

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Anybody know?

I will bet someone here 'knows'.

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Originally posted by a1abdj:
What if it turns out that carbon fiber can be used safely?

In my mind the question, here, and the problem isn't so much one of whether or not CF can safely be used for such a purpose, but, that the way to find out isn't to build it and test it with people in it. At least not people other than yourself.

a1abdj serenading a sheet of carbon fiber...

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In my mind the question, here, and the problem isn't so much one of whether or not CF can safely be used for such a purpose, but, that the way to find out isn't to build it and test it with people in it. At least not people other than yourself.

That's pretty much my position.

Some are blaming the material, suggesting it should never be used, and yet have no evidence (yet) that it was the problem. They cite some people with more experience that also hold that belief (and also a financial motivation), but ignore others who are also experienced who seem to believe it's worth exploring.

I'm not defending Rush. I'm not even defending the material. I'm defending the opportunity to advance the technology and suggesting that we will indeed learn something from this accident which will help going forward.

The US and Canada are now just starting an investigation which baffles me. According to several posters here, they already know what happened. Carbon Fiber. Case closed.

HooWee!!

You're on a mission to be RIGHT!!!!

And since you will automatically disagree with this- as if I haven't witnessed this entire exchange- no, that's exactly what you're doing, no matter how you characterize it. You are on a mission to be right about this and you will just keep going until others get bored of it or until I lock this thread. I guess it's supposed to prove that you're the only logical, rational-thinking, level-headed person in this forum.

Just to add this video for comparison....just a wee bit of difference in the cabin, equipment, and hull.

this was filmed 10 months ago. gives you the sense of the speed at which implosions happen.

I just keep coming back to this being a more merciful death than almost all of us will experience. The speed and intensity of the crushing forces seems to indicate that these people simply winked out of existence and had no sense of any kind about what was happening to them. Here/gone, faster than one's brain can even receive the impulses.

The only downside of a death like that is not getting that last release of brain chemicals and the sense of peace that it brings before the lights turn off.

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Originally posted by a1abdj:

I'm not defending Rush. I'm not even defending the material. I'm defending the opportunity to advance the technology and suggesting that we will indeed learn something from this accident which will help going forward.

Normally, technological progress is made when experiments are designed and run in a deliberate fashion with knowledgeable experts monitoring anticipated temps, pressures, etc. in order to understand what happens. Expecting to learn enough to advance technology by sifting through whatever remains can be retrieved from the depths seems highly optimistic. Might figure out that JB-Weld wasn’t the right glue to use, or screwing a bracket into the cf was a bad idea, but those are hardly significant technology advancements!

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Originally posted by parabellum:
I just keep coming back to this being a more merciful death than almost all of us will experience. The speed and intensity of the crushing forces seems to indicate that these people simply winked out of existence and had no sense of any kind about what was happening to them. Here/gone, faster than one's brain can even receive the impulses.

That very same thought occurred to me, too.

There they were, on an exciting adventure, with anticipation of soon seeing something few will ever see in person, and...

*click*.

the ubiquitous Simon Whistler gets into the Titan failure on his Megaprojects channel.

Thanks for that post Balze. Very informative. Seems like Oceangate was a bit of a wild wild west sort of show.

^^^^^^^^^^^

From the video in regards to the public letter sent to OceanGate from the submersible community that we alluded to, it kinda blew my mind that it was signed off by three dozen industry experts, all who felt the design of the Titan would lead to disaster. It is such a small community, that is a lot of folks who thought Stockton Rush was full of shit.

Since I now have that Helen Reddy song stuck in my head it got me thinking. Maybe the marketing is all wrong. It’s not “let’s go see the Titanic” it should be “I’d like one assisted suicide please with perhaps a chance at seeing the Titanic before I go”.