quote:

Originally posted by AKSuperDually:
So, no bodies? As in wait 7 years for life insurance payments?

Not really the rule in these circumstances.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by AKSuperDually:
So, no bodies? As in wait 7 years for life insurance payments?

Not really the rule in these circumstances.

There will be some time as they line up the correct party to issue the certificate of death, since it was in international waters, getting all the data together, but it's clear that death happened. No different than an airliner plowing into a mountain and leaving no bodies, you have proof these people were in the submersible..

In all likely hood it will be ruled an accidental death and the certificates issued in the country in which they resided.

quote:

Originally posted by Georgeair:

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:
I ran the math for the full depth,

Any estimates on the time or speed of the implosion? I've seen estimates described in milliseconds. With the data you're giving that doesn't seem impossible?

The idea for doing this was driven by a few videos I had watched over the last year on what happens when a full sized navy sub implodes. It is virtually instantaneous and the pressure and heat are tremendous.

I utilized an online calculator that allowed you to set a pressure and temperature, then vary a parameter and calculate the resultant. As I had already calculated the pressure at depth all I needed was the difference in temperature.

Based on my previous information, and how small this vessel was, it seems that for all practical purposes the calculation showing that the pressure & temp in the reached limits beyond what a human body or anything soft or pliable could withstand was enough.

It really doesn't matter if the temperature or pressure was off by even a few hundred PSI or degrees... the point is clear. Instantly cooked and liquefied and zero hope of survival when the vessel failed, and it was a very quick but violent event.

quote:

Originally posted by Georgeair:

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:
I ran the math for the full depth,

Any estimates on the time or speed of the implosion? I've seen estimates described in milliseconds. With the data you're giving that doesn't seem impossible?

This morning one of the news reporters said it was over for them in a nanosecond.

Obviously that reporter has no idea what a nanosecond is. Speed of light travels only about one foot in a nanosecond (in air).

ETA: News article https://nypost.com/2023/06/22/...s-never-knew-expert/

quote:

Expert Ofer Ketter said the implosion would occur within a millisecond, if not a nanosecond, if something breached the hull of the vessel to cause a loss in pressure.

a nanosecond. Some expert. Go crawl into a hole, and at least learn the terms that you are using.

I’m not bothered by James Cameron and I see him together with Bob Ballard being interviewed extensively. Cameron has parlayed his fame into his personal passion of deep sea exploration for something like 30 years. He happens to be a ‘celebrity’ but he also personally knows and has studied about as much as the private submersible industry as anybody. I’ve also seen US submariners interviewed which doesn’t seem to be as relevant. A billion dollar nuclear powered boat and a submersible don’t have much in common except they both go under the water. Also have seen discover channel explorer Josh gates interviewed. He went on titan in 2021 for some shake down dives. He was going to go to titanic but backed out he said he didn’t feel good about it.

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:
The idea for doing this was driven by a few videos I had watched over the last year on what happens when a full sized navy sub implodes. It is virtually instantaneous and the pressure and heat are tremendous.

TBH, before you posted those numbers I hadn't even considered the heat generated from the air inside that vessel being compressed that hard, that fast.

quote:

Originally posted by ElToro:
I’m not bothered by James Cameron...

I like boobs but they should be in pairs.

LoL

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
TBH, before you posted those numbers I hadn't even considered the heat generated from the air inside that vessel being compressed that hard, that fast.

Same. Seems like the immense pressure at depth basically turned the sub into a diesel engine cylinder for a brief instant.

I once had Bob Ballard and James Cameron on the same research vessel at the same time, I thought that if they got too close to each other that their enormous egos might interact, causing the formation of a black hole, swallowing up the entire solar system.

quote:

Originally posted by CaptainMike:
The American Bureau of Shipping (ABS) is responsible, in partnership with the USCG for certifying and inspecting any for hire, passenger carrying submersible or submarines operated in US waters from US flagged ships. Most of the research or “experimental” submersibles persue inspection and certification by ABS as well. The Alvin is one exception, but they belong to the USN.
ABS, though a private organization is basically the FAA of shipping with enforcement responsibilities granted to it by the USCG. Interesting snippet on the Alvin linked below.
https://www.whoi.edu/news-insi...ineering-test-dives/

Except they weren’t in US waters and the trip departed from St. John’s NF

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:

quote:

Originally posted by CaptainMike:
The American Bureau of Shipping (ABS) is responsible, in partnership with the USCG for certifying and inspecting any for hire, passenger carrying submersible or submarines operated in US waters from US flagged ships. Most of the research or “experimental” submersibles persue inspection and certification by ABS as well. The Alvin is one exception, but they belong to the USN.
ABS, though a private organization is basically the FAA of shipping with enforcement responsibilities granted to it by the USCG. Interesting snippet on the Alvin linked below.
https://www.whoi.edu/news-insi...ineering-test-dives/

Except they weren’t in US waters and the trip departed from St. John’s NF

And Mike's next post:

quote:

Originally posted by CaptainMike:
https://ww2.eagle.org/content/...uwvs-rules-jan21.pdf
A link to the current ABS rules for submersibles,(design, engineering, inspections etc. which Stockton Rush totally ignored. That’s why the whole shady enterprise was being run out of Canada.

Question - how does the US regulate cruise ships and other boats registered to another country? Just about every passenger ship I've seen is not US registered, for a lot of reasons...

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
Question - how does the US regulate cruise ships and other boats registered to another country? Just about every passenger ship I've seen is not US registered, for a lot of reasons...

Cruise ships, when in US ports, are subject to US Customs, Coast Guard inspections and FDA inspections.

Wife and I were boarding a cruise ship in Fort Lauderdale for a transatlantic cruise that was coming from Antarctica, South America and the Caribbean. Ship registered in Nassau. When it arrived in port it got all three at once; boarding was just a little late that day.

Not only Canada, but Indians, the Miawpukek First Nation, own the Polar Prince. I don’t know about Canadian Indians, but American Indians can do all sorts of things an American wouldn’t be allowed to do. There’s a couple Indian fishing boats in the harbor up the road that I can pretty much guarantee don’t meet any American ship building standard.

Is every country trying to dodge responsibility (or spending $$) for investigating this?

From WTOPnews in Washington DC:

A day after revelations that the Titan submersible imploded, officials searched the ocean floor for evidence and grappled Friday with vexing questions about who is responsible for investigating the international disaster.

It was not entirely clear Friday who would have the authority to lead what is sure to be a complex investigation involving several countries. OceanGate Expeditions, the company that owned and operated the Titan, is based in the U.S. but the submersible was registered in the Bahamas. OceanGate is based in Everett, Washington, but closed when the Titan was found. Meanwhile, the Titan’s mother ship, the Polar Prince, was from Canada, and the people on board the submersible were from England, Pakistan, France, and the U.S.

How the investigation will proceed is also complicated by the fact that the world of deep-sea exploration is not well-regulated. Deep-sea expeditions like those offered by OceanGate are scrutinized less than the companies that launch people into space, noted Salvatore Mercogliano, a history professor at Campbell University in North Carolina who focuses on maritime history and policy.

The Titan was not registered as a U.S. vessel or with international agencies that regulate safety. And it wasn’t classified by a maritime industry group that sets standards on matters such as hull construction.

OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush, who was piloting the Titan when it imploded, complained that regulations can stifle progress.

“Bringing an outside entity up to speed on every innovation before it is put into real-world testing is anathema to rapid innovation,” Rush wrote in a blog post on his company’s website.

Bob Ballard, a member of the research team that found the Titanic wreck in 1985, called the lack of certification by outside experts “the smoking gun” in the Titan implosion.

^^^^^
Let the finger pointing begin???

quote:

who is responsible for investigating the international disaster.

I fail to see how this is a “disaster”; more like an avoidable accident.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:
The idea for doing this was driven by a few videos I had watched over the last year on what happens when a full sized navy sub implodes. It is virtually instantaneous and the pressure and heat are tremendous.

TBH, before you posted those numbers I hadn't even considered the heat generated from the air inside that vessel being compressed that hard, that fast.

Think about how your home A/C or heat pump works and scale up by many magnitudes of order.