quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
But don't bar legal visa holders, who came here legally and remained in status, from returning to their jobs, homes and families.

Why?

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
So, you believe that once someone obtains a Visa, their “home” is now in the US? Really? You are confused at best.

The US is no more the “home” of an H1B visa holder, than it’s the “home” of an illegal who crossed the border at night and works at a local lawn mowing business. The fact they have family in this country also has nothing to do with their Visa status. Your arguments for keep repeating the same thing as if it has merit. It does not.

America first.

Until their visa expires or is revoked, yes. It's not a tourist visa. People who enter the US on visas for longer than a tourist one allows generally buy or rent a home, earn money, pay taxes and put their kids in school here. If they left the country with the expectation that they'd be able to return on the same valid visa, but are suddenly jammed up at the airport because of an EO issued while they were out of the country, I think that's wrong. Any American working abroad would be screaming bloody murder if they were unable to return to their home abroad on a valid visa. I didn't have a whole lot of stuff in my dorm room while living in Germany in college, but I sure would have been pissed had I been prevented from returning after coming back to the US for Xmas, flew all the way back to Germany, expecting to be back in school there the following week and then got jammed up at the airport.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
But don't bar legal visa holders, who came here legally and remained in status, from returning to their jobs, homes and families.

Why?

Because they entered on a valid visa, remained in status and left temporarily on the basis of their visa still being valid.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
I think that's wrong.

I sure would have been pissed….

I cut all that down to the most direct statements as to why. Fundamentally, these are arguments coming from emotion. My emotion is: America and Americans first, work visa immigrants second.

If you did all that schooling here in the US for a field where you paid tens of thousands of dollars for a degree they assured you that you could find a career in right out of school, and you couldn’t because our visa laws were such that your entire field was dominated by H1B visa holders getting paid comparative slave wages you couldn’t compete with, would that seem fair to you? No? Well who gets first dibs on “fair” in this country? It hasn’t been the domestic working man for a while, now.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
Because they entered on a valid visa, remained in status and left temporarily on the basis of their visa still being valid.

I mean… oh-fucking-well. Rules can and do change in ways that sometimes affect decent people. On the balance, though, I have a hard time really caring about their feelings on this one.

Hehe.

So you believe this is their home.

Sorry to tell you, anyone that believes that is defrauding the INS. And should be deported. Work Visas are strictly for work. They are not to be used to defraud the INS as some sort of end run to citizenship. To make this “their home”. Especially to abuse taxpayer funded services to put their kids through our schools for free.

We should be deporting those people first. They are scamming the system even more than those who crossed the border illegally. And defrauding the H1B visa program show hols a life time ban from this country.

Even funnier, they are guests in this country. Too bad that their expectations get changed. They can apply for citizenship the legal way. The fact that we have gotten to the place where non-citizens think that they can come in on a work Visa and now “this is their home” is troubling at best.

Obviously, the gov't. can do whatever they want at anytime. I have a trip to China coming up and still have four yrs left on a 10 yr visa. I'll be pretty chapped if, after 21 hours in airplanes, I get denied entry for some BS that went into effect with little or no notice while I was already in transit, and particularly if it's some retaliatory measure for Chinese travelers (on valid visas) getting held up at US airports.

If you guys never travel abroad and don't have friends and family from other countries, this stuff may not matter to you. But even you should expect the terms of your travel documents to be ironclad for the effective and expiry dates on them.

I’ve traveled abroad extensively. And from the WestPAC countries I’ve been to, you dont abuse being guests in their country. And if your guest status changes, you leave when asked.

Apparently, not only is it ok here, it’s apparently an entitlement thing. And at no time when I was working in those countries, did I think they were my “home”.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Hehe.

So you believe this is their home.

Sorry to tell you, anyone that believes that is defrauding the INS. And should be deported. Work Visas are strictly for work. They are not to be used to defraud the INS as some sort of end run to citizenship. To make this “their home”. Especially to abuse taxpayer funded services to put their kids through our schools for free.

We should be deporting those people first. They are scamming the system even more than those who crossed the border illegally. And defrauding the H1B visa program show hols a life time ban from this country.

Even funnier, they are guests in this country. Too bad that their expectations get changed. They can apply for citizenship the legal way. The fact that we have gotten to the place where non-citizens think that they can come in on a work Visa and now “this is their home” is
troubling at best.

WTF are you talking about? Someone entering on an H1 is not necessarily defrauding anyone. Their employer may be, but the employee has just about zero effect on the issuance of an H1. And plenty of those folks would like to become citizens, which they can only do after first getting a green card, which is still years away from entering on an H1. Entering the US on valid visa and remaining in status the whole time here is what we say we want people to do. And you think they're defrauding the gov't. by that? Sheesh.

^^^ So, you’re a H1B Visa holder?

I can’t tell if you’re obtuse or just arguing. Anyone who is on a work visa and believes this is their home (you said so yourself when I asked) is IN FACT defrauding the US govt.

No, not an H1 holder. I was born in the US. But we all know many or most of the people who come here on H1s want to stay. And plenty of people who come on F1s and just spent a few years in school here need to find an H1 sponsor before their OPT expires. That's just the reality.

I have no problem with ending the H1 program or making it prohibitively expensive for employers. But the current valid H1 visa holders didn't do anything wrong and don't deserve to have their lives upended because of a sudden and drastic change in policy.

Bottom line is, H1B Visa holders, current or future, aren’t entitled to anything. You sound like the US government should make exceptions for this group or that one.

Enlist in the US armed services and gain your citizenship that way. Enough years and get your education paid for.

Indians get H1's and then wait as long as they have to for a green card. It takes many years. But they all want to stay.

The fraud is the fact that they universally inflate qualifications and expertise. Same goes for university admissions. It's cultural, happens in India. Title inflation in jobs is rampant, to look better on paper.

Then once hired they can't really do the job up to the level they claimed they could. And then more get hired to compensate.

For every H1 visa, the sponsoring company has to attest that no suitable American citizen can fill the job. Such claims are clearly false in most cases.

That's a fantastic shot there FenderBender ^^^^^^. Hopefully it doesn't get lost in this quagmire of Visa Arguments. Maybe we should have a separate thread for Trump stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
Indians get H1's and then wait as long as they have to for a green card. It takes many years. But they all want to stay.

The fraud is the fact that they universally inflate qualifications and expertise. Same goes for university admissions. It's cultural, happens in India. Title inflation in jobs is rampant, to look better on paper.

Then once hired they can't really do the job up to the level they claimed they could. And then more get hired to compensate.

For every H1 visa, the sponsoring company has to attest that no suitable American citizen can fill the job. Such claims are clearly false in most cases.

Again, I worked for an Indian company, based in FL, who is exhibit A for H1 visa abuse. Remember the book and movie The Firm? That's how they rolled. Bring them here on an H1, get them to bring their families over, put down roots, and then let them know how it really works. Do absolutely everything the CEO says, no matter how crooked or wrong, have your whole life monitored ala 1984, step out of line just once, and you're fired. Your H1 is yanked and you and your family are headed back to India.

Those H1 guys were good people, came here legally, are hard workers, pay taxes, didn't so much as exceed the speed limit, but lived in constant fear of the crazy CEO waking up on the wrong side of the bed and upending their whole lives.

I'd love to see the H1 program ended just on the grounds of making it harder for RICO ops like the one I used to work for to bring near slaves over here and keep them living in fear. But I have no animosity toward the workers who did everything by the book and sort of think the US is a rule of law place where terms and conditions mean something.

[Like Button] Thank you. x2 [/Like Button]

quote:

Originally posted by FenderBender:
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1969897602524328440

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Not only is that a great photo, but look who posted it.