What is the difference between a $36T debt and a $38.2T debt?
The juice paid.
Because that is all we can and do pay. The national debt itself cannot be repaid.
Why?
Because:
(1) Congress and the President won't constrain spending to reach a positive cash flow wherein revenues are paid to the eliminate at least part of the debt.
(2) There is no way to pay it off even in a two-consecutive term Presidency. If we spent every dime of the $5T in annual tax revenue on debt elimination (i.e., zero in discretionary spending, zero in non-discretionary (e.g., Social Security, Medicare) spending) it would take over 10 years to pay off $38T in debt.
So, does it matter?
Nice is overrated
"It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government." Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018
June 05, 2025, 10:50 AM
egregore
quote:
“As the rest of us are celebrating the joy of Pride Month, it is my hope that the Navy will reconsider this egregious decision and continue to recognize the extraordinary contributions of Harvey Milk, a Veteran himself, and all Americans who forged historic progress for our nation.”
Harvey Milk's only claim to fame, besides getting shot, is letting butt-pluggers run amuck in the bathhouses.
"The Almighty, He put some livin' things on this earth so a man can eat." - Festus Haggen, Gunsmoke
June 05, 2025, 11:22 AM
Mark in Michigan
“I made the decisions about the pardons, executive orders, legislation, and proclamations. Any suggestion that I didn’t is ridiculous and false,” Biden said in a (written) statement.
Trump Says Rare Earth Export Issue Resolved Following Call With Xi
The president said the Chinese leader extended an invitation for him to visit China.
WASHINGTON—President Donald Trump confirmed on Truth Social that he spoke with Chinese leader Xi Jinping on Thursday morning, announcing that the issue of China’s export restrictions on rare earths has been resolved.
Trump described the conversation as “very good,” noting that the two leaders discussed “some of the intricacies” of the trade deal recently reached in Geneva last month. “There should no longer be any questions respecting the complexity of Rare Earth products. Our respective teams will be meeting shortly at a location to be determined,” Trump announced after the call, which lasted an hour and a half.
He said Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick, and U.S. Trade Representative Jamieson Greer will attend the negotiations.
Trump also announced that Xi has extended an invitation for him and the first lady to visit China.
“This is something that we both look forward to doing,” Trump said, adding that the White House would announce the timing and location of the negotiating teams’ meeting.
“The conversation was focused almost entirely on TRADE. Nothing was discussed concerning Russia/Ukraine, or Iran,” Trump said.
The conversation occurred during Trump’s growing frustration with stalled trade talks between Washington and Beijing.
On June 4, Trump wrote on Truth Social that Xi was “extremely hard to make a deal with,” after aides said Trump is expected to have a trade negotiations call with Xi this week.
Trump accused Xi of being “very tough, and extremely hard to make a deal with.” Trade officials from both countries met in Geneva and announced a 90-day agreement on May 12, during which the high tariffs and retaliatory measures were supposed to be rolled back as further trade negotiations took place.
On May 30, Trump, however, revealed that the Chinese communist regime had “violated” the agreement by “slow-rolling” the critical mineral export restrictions it had agreed to roll back.
China dominates the critical minerals market by processing and refining both its own raw materials and those imported from other countries. This gives Beijing significant control over the global supply chain for these essential resources.
Beijing initially denied violating the trade agreement on May 30. It escalated its remarks on June 2, when a spokesperson with the regime’s commerce ministry issued a statement through state media in which it attacked Washington’s decision to revoke visas for Chinese students with ties to the Chinese Communist Party. It also criticized U.S. warnings of potential penalties over the use of Huawei’s artificial intelligence chips, which the United States believed were created in violation of U.S. export controls.
Trump initially imposed substantial tariff increases on China “based on the lack of respect that China has shown to the world’s markets.” However, in May, he announced a temporary reduction of tariffs on Chinese goods from 145 percent to 30 percent.
SIGforum: For all your needs! Imagine our influence if every gun owner in America was an NRA member! Click the box>>>
June 05, 2025, 11:42 AM
Sig2340
quote:
Originally posted by Mark in Michigan: “I made the decisions about the pardons, executive orders, legislation, and proclamations. Any suggestion that I didn’t is ridiculous and false,” Biden said in a (written) statement.
Okay DemontoJoe, what was the crime that Honi Lori Moore committed and the sentence imposed?
Nice is overrated
"It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government." Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018
June 05, 2025, 12:06 PM
chellim1
quote:
Originally posted by Sig2340: What is the difference between a $36T debt and a $38.2T debt?
The juice paid.
Because that is all we can and do pay. The national debt itself cannot be repaid.
Why?
Because:
(1) Congress and the President won't constrain spending to reach a positive cash flow wherein revenues are paid to the eliminate at least part of the debt.
(2) There is no way to pay it off even in a two-consecutive term Presidency. If we spent every dime of the $5T in annual tax revenue on debt elimination (i.e., zero in discretionary spending, zero in non-discretionary (e.g., Social Security, Medicare) spending) it would take over 10 years to pay off $38T in debt.
So, does it matter?
It matters when debt becomes slavery.
The interest on the debt (The juice paid) now exceeds the DoD budget. As it grows, it will crowd out other spending, and eventually all we are paying for with our taxes is past spending.
At what point do people say, "I don't care anymore, it's not my debt; I'm not paying"?
"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown
"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor
June 05, 2025, 12:49 PM
Sig2340
quote:
Originally posted by chellim1:
It matters when debt becomes slavery.
The interest on the debt (The juice paid) now exceeds the DoD budget. As it grows, it will crowd out other spending, and eventually all we are paying for with our taxes is past spending.
My point exactly.
We crossed the Rubicon into debt slavery about the time Perot ran for the Presidency (when he pointed out the Treasury was doing new borrowing to pay off old bonds and the interest on those bonds), when the debt was a mere $5T. When the Fed ratcheted up interest rates in the 20teens, we became slaves chained forever to more borrowing to simply pay the interest on the debt (i.e., we never pay off any portion of the debt).
Nice is overrated
"It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government." Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018
June 05, 2025, 01:27 PM
HRK
quote:
Originally posted by chellim1: It matters when debt becomes slavery.
The interest on the debt (The juice paid) now exceeds the DoD budget. As it grows, it will crowd out other spending, and eventually all we are paying for with our taxes is past spending.
At what point do people say, "I don't care anymore, it's not my debt; I'm not paying"?
IF you (collective) don't follow Musk and/or DOGE on X you should, he's railing on Trump on the bill...
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them." - John Wayne in "The Shootist"
June 05, 2025, 02:59 PM
41
Trump takes questions from Oval office alongside German Chancellor
41
June 05, 2025, 03:21 PM
PASig
I'm surprised that two figures like Elon and Trump managed to get along as long as they actually did.
They're like two massive powerful forces of nature that were inevitably going to collide in a spectacular fashion.
June 05, 2025, 03:22 PM
medic451
Elon is going nuts on twitter, Trump threatens to end govt contracts with Space X- Elon responds by saying he will decomission the Dragson space calsule immediately. We really dont need this shit right now. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1930718684819112251
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them." - John Wayne in "The Shootist"
June 05, 2025, 03:26 PM
fischtown7
quote:
Originally posted by Carpentermaass84: Trump has already gone on record saying the economic growth this bill will generate will more than offset any temporary increase in the deficit. The deficit could be largely eliminated with tariffs and EV penalty fees over the next four years.
Nope, highest GDP growth the USA ever had was 10.1 percents under Roosevelt. I ran some numbers on a previous post, 30 percent cut in spending on everything and a 30 percent tax increase on everyone and it will still take about 30 years to pay off our debt. It is demographically not even possible to grow our economy fast enough to pay off the debt. That does not even take into account the $104 trillion in unfunded debt that is coming up.
June 05, 2025, 03:28 PM
6guns
quote:
We really dont need this shit right now.
We sure don't! This is a damn mess that should be avoided.
SIGforum: For all your needs! Imagine our influence if every gun owner in America was an NRA member! Click the box>>>
June 05, 2025, 03:29 PM
reloader-1
We didn’t elect a president to maybe shrink the deficit in 4 years.
We have to fix it now.
In many ways, the enemy is us. Trump has one shot at this, do it right.
June 05, 2025, 03:31 PM
chellim1
quote:
Originally posted by PASig: I'm surprised that two figures like Elon and Trump managed to get along as long as they actually did.
They're like two massive powerful forces of nature that were inevitably going to collide in a spectacular fashion.
"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown
"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor
June 05, 2025, 03:33 PM
Dakor
quote:
Originally posted by medic451: Oh no Elon… why?
Elon made a great personal and professional sacrifice. Yes, he has a different opinion regarding what I think is a horrible bill. So debate him Trump, don't threaten to cancel his companies' government contracts and subsidies because he voiced his opinion! I'm willing to bet the DOGE staff will resign en masse in the near future.
June 05, 2025, 03:39 PM
medic451
quote:
Originally posted by Dakor:
quote:
Originally posted by medic451: Oh no Elon… why?
Elon made a great personal and professional sacrifice. Yes, he has a different opinion regarding what I think is a horrible bill. So debate him Trump, don't threaten to cancel his companies' government contracts and subsidies because he voiced his opinion! I'm willing to bet the DOGE staff will resign en masse in the near future.
Agreed- they need to handle this behind closed doors and not air this crap out on twitter. The dems are loving this right now, and they’ve had nothing to cheer about since November.
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them." - John Wayne in "The Shootist"
June 05, 2025, 03:49 PM
parabellum
Utterly shameful. Musk has made a serious error, and it's not because of any revenge by President Trump.
