Pretty amazing maintaining same forward speed and drop rate.

That is about the coolest thing I've seen in a long time. They got big ones.
Mike

I've watched a lot of that guys videos. I like him as a pilot, and I love Draco. That's a hell of a STOL bird! Still, this was stupid crazy.

Love seeing Draco again! Not really that dangerous (for pilot/Draco), like he said the instant he puts the prop pitch forward again he gets all control back. Even if it somehow failed/broke and was stuck in reverse pitch he could just idle the engine and land.

I knew the forward speeds of the wing suits but had no idea the descent rate was that high! The close terrain videos make it seem like the descent rate isn't that bad.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:

I knew the forward speeds of the wing suits but had no idea the descent rate was that high! The close terrain videos make it seem like the descent rate isn't that bad.

Yeah, it seems like they are 'flying', but it's gliding with a steep decent rate.

Near the end of this video you can see it pretty clearly as well with the terrain in the background.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
Not really that dangerous (for pilot/Draco), like he said the instant he puts the prop pitch forward again he gets all control back. Even if it somehow failed/broke and was stuck in reverse pitch he could just idle the engine and land.

No, it really is dangerous. Beta in flight = extremely dangerous.

Neither placing the engine at idle, nor shutting it off would fix a prop stuck in beta. It's not what the engine power is doing, it's the drag rise, and it's immense.

An engine stuck in beta or a flat blade even at idle will produce a great deal of drag and result in a steep descent to touchdown.

By comparison, I flew a turboprop with the TPE-331-10 rigged to approximate beta conditions during idle, or close to idle throttle position. The first time I flew it (single seat), I was advised to overfly the runway and be ready for full forward stick. I began at 1,000' over the runway, retarded the lever to idle, slowly, and when the prop went flat, it threw me forward against the shoulder straps and I buried the stick, and went to a vertical downline to keep from stalling. I couldn't have maintained that condition until touchdown.

There's a LOT that can go wrong, especially in flight in beta, not the least of which is loss of airflow over control surfaces, to say nothing of the massive drag increase.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Yeah, it seems like they are 'flying', but it's gliding with a steep decent rate.

A glide is flying.

Nope. And hell nope.

H&K-Guy

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:


No, it really is dangerous. Beta in flight = extremely dangerous.

Neither placing the engine at idle, nor shutting it off would fix a prop stuck in beta. It's not what the engine power is doing, it's the drag rise, and it's immense.

An engine stuck in beta or a flat blade even at idle will produce a great deal of drag and result in a steep descent to touchdown.

Very interesting, thanks! He did say "don't try this"

I've done it. A lot. At 15-60' above the ground in burning canyons. A lot.

Definitely don't try it.

There's nothing like coming to the bottom of a downhill run and having that little itch in the back of your mind that says "what if it doesn't come out?"

I had an oil loss and subsequent loss of propeller control during one such run, which only made that voice a lot louder.

On the other hand, the capabilities with that extra drag are spectacular...when everything goes right.

Ask Wayne Handley about an airplane that doesn't come out of reverse in flight. He was a world aerobatic champion and performer, long time ag pilot, instructor, etc. I believe he was 2" shorter when he recovered from his mishap, which was his signature maneuver at airshows. Right up until it didn't come out of reverse at an airshow in California about 20 years ago.

There is a running cusinart on the front of that plane.

That is the fatal kind of stupid.

Population control at its finest. Plus it provides entertainment for the rest of us. Die doing what you love.. The sole purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others.

Its just formation flying in a dive. Nothing dangerous about it.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:

I knew the forward speeds of the wing suits but had no idea the descent rate was that high! The close terrain videos make it seem like the descent rate isn't that bad.

Yeah, it seems like they are 'flying', but it's gliding with a steep decent rate.

Near the end of this video you can see it pretty clearly as well with the terrain in the background.

[FLASH_VIDEO]<iframe frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/YL9sNrOlK-I" width="560"></iframe>[/FLASH_VIDEO]

That is the one I love! Amazing!

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
Not really that dangerous (for pilot/Draco)..

I suppose if you think a 180lb bird strike to the prop is no big deal.

Mike Patey (Pilot) designed and built Draco from a Wilga (after his io540 caused a forced landing), Turbelence the fastest prop plane from a Lancair 360 and big PW Turboprop. He sold Turbelence and is building a faster plane. He does much of the engineering and build he himself. Check out his videos of building Draco. He and his twin brother have built multiple successful businesses and a are excellent entrepreneurs.

He is deliberate, but yep things can go wrong fast. Still very cool.

quote:

Originally posted by FlyingScot:
Mike Patey (Pilot) designed and built Draco from a Wilga (after his io540 caused a forced landing), Turbelence the fastest prop plane from a Lancair 360 and big PW Turboprop. He sold Turbelence and is building a faster plane. He does much of the engineering and build he himself. Check out his videos of building Draco. He and his twin brother have built multiple successful businesses and a are excellent entrepreneurs.

He is deliberate, but yep things can go wrong fast.Still very cool.

Things did go wrong today.
Not related to this stunt. However, Draco is no more. Fortunately, no injuries except a (reported) broken fingernail.

Wow, that sucks big time. At least everyone is OK and I like how he explained it was 100% pilot error and what he should have done different.

Like firearms and ND's, complacency is the real danger not a lack of skill or knowledge.

I've flown off that runway and Reno-Stead quite a bit, nearly all on wildfires, often in some strong wind.

Stead is surrounded by moutains and rolling hills, and it can get dust devils, very strong crosswinds, gusts, thunderstorms (especially this time of year), windshear, microbursts, and canyon winds that can change rapidly and increase or decrease in intensity with little warning.

I've had days when I literally couldn't climb out of the bowl that Stead sits in, and once had to do an emergency jettison to get back. Visibility can drop rapidly, runway changes are frequent in stormy conditions.

Patey's comments are accurate and correct. I'd prefer to see him do less public admission so soon after a mishap, but he's absolutely right about the opportunity to prevent it right up until it happened, and it being pilot error. It nearly always is, and this is no exception.

I've had some fairly hairy landings and takeoffs there. It's very clear from before the takeoff roll starts, in the video, that the airplane is already beyond it's capabilities, with the upwind wing forced up, the downwind gear compressed, and when he pulls it off the ground slow with no energy, the result is fairly predictable. Very unfortunate. Despite Patey's public admission and it's unwise legal implications, his comments are a valuable lesson for others, and for him, too.

Who knows? Maybe he will be able to get the aircraft back together again. I've seen it done from worse. It ain't gonna be cheap, though.