quote:

Originally posted by sourdough44:
I did hear the F/O was getting IOE, initial operating experience, after the training program. The captain was a check airman, training pilot of sorts.

Where did you hear this?

That was from a aviation dedicated forums.

If true that the FO was on initial IOE and the flying pilot, there are a lot of questions about the check airman's supervision.

I was a line check airman for many years at my airline. IOE requires hyper awareness of what the aircraft is doing, and what the peculiarities are of that type. The airline will have strict limitations on crosswind, visibility, ceiling, and runway condition for the IOE to be flying pilot.

Shit happens fast sometimes. You brief ahead with the IOE what to expect and what to do. They understand the briefing, they are performing correctly until suddenly they don't.

If it turns out to be more than an internet rumor that a new hire IOE was flying pilot, the consequences will be significant.

Word also is the check airman ‘flowed’ to Delta mainline, had troubles, then went back to the regional airline.

https://viewfromthewing.com/fl...tas-toronto-landing/

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2...side-down-in-toronto

At this point, seems a lot more on him, than her.

Seems like internet rumor at this point. I read a 47 page thread on what seemed to be a pilot orientated forum where posters were more intent on pushing their narrative/agenda than discussing what happened.

I noticed one more thing in the video taken from one plane’s cockpit: the left wing of the CRJ flexes down a ton when the plane touches down and then snaps back up. That coupled with the plane is rolled significantly to the right, as evidenced by the left winglet being above the fuselage and the right winglet being at or just below the center of the fuselage, makes me wonder how much the right wing flexed down. The ground stopped it from flexing down as much as the left wing did.

Wing tip strikes do happen. Rarely but they do. And it doesn't break the wing or twist it off at the root. It puts a nasty rash on the underside of the tip, and possibly permanently bends the wing.

IMO, the CRJ wing tip hitting the ground would not result in what we see in the video or the aftermath photos in terms of the entire wing being torn off at the root.

Perhaps the gear collapsed or the wing broke from an extremely hard landing. Perhaps a pre-existing fracture in the gear or wing ruptured from the force of the landing.

So far I have not seen any photos of the right main gear or the wing. Nor any info from the FDR or CVR. More factual information (not "pilot" forum gossip) is needed.

quote:

Originally posted by sourdough44:
Word also is the check airman ‘flowed’ to Delta mainline, had troubles, then went back to the regional airline.

https://viewfromthewing.com/fl...tas-toronto-landing/

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2...side-down-in-toronto

Both those articles are less than authoritative. The identities of the pilots may be correct given the photo of the FMS screen (but who would have access to that other than the crew on that flight?).

But the rest is speculation and innuendo.

[/QUOTE]Both those articles are less than authoritative. The identities of the pilots may be correct given the photo of the FMS screen (but who would have access to that other than the crew on that flight?).

But the rest is speculation and innuendo.[/QUOTE]

I can't speak to the veracity of the articles, but that isn't a picture of an/the FMS. It's the dispatch release for the flight which is sent to the pilots as well as the operations agent (or whatever they're called there). I don't work at EDV, but ours are now all electronic and are available internally for anyone to see if they know where to look.

Whenever there's an "incident" here the company will go in and scrub the crew's information so no one knows who they are, but in the time it takes them to become aware and go in and do it it's still possible to see. In today's digital age no one is completely safe from being outed, it's only a matter of when not if the information will come out.

Not directed to anyone here, but I cannot believe what I’m seeing all over the Internet… Actually yes of course I can believe it.

Maybe before we burn this woman’s house down, we have a source sharper than the literal “Pakistani express“.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:
Not directed to anyone here, but I cannot believe what I’m seeing all over the Internet… Actually yes of course I can believe it.

Maybe before we burn this woman’s house down, we have a source sharper than the literal “Pakistani express“.

What is a more "acceptable" source? NYT? CBS?

A more acceptable source?

The FAA

The NTSB

Just two that immediately come to mind and I’m sure there are others.

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:

What is a more "acceptable" source? NYT? CBS?

How about one that doesn’t start off with: we haven’t verified any of this, but here’s what anonymous people on the internet are saying?

There were two pilots, the internet hasn’t a clue which one was flying the plane. The internet also hasn’t a clue what the cause of the crash was either.

What’s out there about the pilots is the equivalent to ducks float, she weighs as much as a duck, she’s a witch.

Section 1. General
6-1-1. Pilot Responsibility and Authority
The pilot-in-command of an aircraft is directly responsible for and is the final authority as to the operation of that aircraft. In an emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot-in-command may deviate from any rule in 14 CFR part 91, Subpart A, General, and Subpart B, Flight Rules, to the extent required to meet that emergency.

The FARs (Federal Aviarion Regulations) are pretty clear that regardless of who is the pilot flying the PIC (Pilot in command) is responsible.

CBS: Delta releases information about crew aboard flight that crashed, flipped in Toronto

Excerpt:
“Officials say the captain was hired by Mesaba Airlines in October 2007, which merged with Pinnacle Airlines in 2012 to form Endeavor Air, a subsidiary of Delta that operated the flight to Toronto. Additionally, he has served as an active duty captain and in pilot training and flight safety capacities.

CBS News learned the first officer graduated from a university with an accredited and well-respected aviation program, and so was able to start working with fewer than 1,500 hours under a Restricted Air Transport Pilot certificate. She crossed the 1,500-hour mark and earned her full ATP certificate in January 2023, which is the highest-level pilot certification in the U.S., before completing training last April, and has been flying for Endeavor since then.

Delta says her flight experience "exceeded the minimum requirements" set by federal regulations.

She passed all of her check rides and there were "no red flags" about her pilot skills, a source familiar told CBS.

Delta added that claims spreading online alleging the captain and first officer had failed training events were false, and both crew members are Federal Aviation Administration-certified for their positions.

"All these pilots train for these conditions," Delta Air Lines CEO Ed Bastian said in an exclusive interview with "CBS Mornings." "They fly under all kinds of conditions at all the airports in which we rate, so there's nothing specific with respect to experience that I'd look to."“

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
CBS: Delta releases information about crew aboard flight that crashed, flipped in Toronto

Excerpt:
“... the first officer ... earned her full ATP certificate in January 2023 ... before completing training last April, and has been flying for Endeavor since then“

Does not sound like an IOE or low time situation. About 10 months flying the line would have her very well versed in the characteristics of the aircraft and dealing with the wind conditions that day.

Juan's latest video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAVuvOtRg5w

^^^Here you go^^^

Finally talked with my boss today who was on this flight. Had been holding off as I didn't want to bother him till he was ready. We talked for a few minutes about his experience. Said it all happened so fast that when it first started he really didn't see how they were going to get out of it. Between the fireball and the roll he just made peace with the fact that it was over. Said once they settled and started evacuating he realized that his right shoulder was pretty messed up. Won't go into details for privacy sake, but sounds like he's got a long road ahead as far as recovery. Told him I was just glad to be talking with him today vs. the alternative. If/when I get more details, and assuming he's ok with me sharing, I'll share them here.