quote:

Originally posted by bryan11:
The math for the different mileage is interesting. Ethanol has around 33% less energy content than gasoline, so gasoline with 10% ethanol has around 4% less energy content. At local rates of $3.79/gal, buying non-ethanol gas for 20 cents more looks like the break even point with better mileage and buying fuel less frequently.

Another consideration: my mechanic showed me carbon buildup on my Lexus and said it's prevented if I use non-ethanol gasoline. Cleaning up the carbon yielded a significant performance boost, so there's another cost of using ethanol gas.

^^^This right here. He said everything I was thinking.

Your truck shouldn’t be pinging. I’d figure that out first. Pinging damages engines. Maybe do a Seafoam fog to get that carbon out.

Non ethanol premium ($$$!) in my Harley Pan American. Fuel stabilizer when storing for winter, too. Ethanol in my Jeep.

quote:

At local rates of $3.79/gal, buying non-ethanol gas for 20 cents more looks like the break even point with better mileage and buying fuel less frequently.

That's good info. If I see non-ethanol gas for 20 cents more, I'd definitely use it. Problem is, they can't sell it around here. But it is sold out-state.

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:
For modern road vehicles in frequent use, there isn't enough benefit from non-ethanol gasoline to justify its expense.

Its real value is for vehicles and equipment that may sit for longer periods of time: Boats, motorcycles, lawn mowers, generators, etc....

This.

If the vehicle is going to sit for long periods of time then use ethanol free (if you can find it).

If pinging and mileage is the concern, put 3 gallons of 93 octane in first then the rest 87.

The mileage difference is caused by the knock sensor telling the ignition to back off the timing a few degrees. That drops the power and the MPG.

A 2012 vehicle should be good otherwise with ethanol gas.

Thanks again guys for all of the feedback and recommendations. It has been at least two years since I ran a can of Seafoam through my truck so I think I will start there. I did just check my air filter and it is in great shape. By mileage it was changed 9,200 miles ago. I am going to run my next tank full of 92 octane (ethanol) and then try a Seafoam tankful treatment. If neither help I will get it in for a full tuneup.

Also ethanol free is $0.30 a gallon more for 87 octane. I may have errored in my follow up comments related to this.

Thanks to everyone for your help on this issue. Greatly appreciate the guidance and recommendations. Mark

I use ethanol free gas in all my small engines and noticed the best results with my ATV when at idling.

After parking my push mower for a week it still has fuel in the tank. But when using ethanol fuel it appears to evaporate away after sitting a week . And is completely dry in the small tank.

Are you towing in D?

Gen 2 Tacoma with a 4L v-6 shouldnt be pinging

Here is a website that lists stations that sell pure gas:

https://www.pure-gas.org

I have a motor which recommends premium (not the wording "required"). I've noticed about 10% better mileage with the no ethanol gas. With premium octane gas around $4.80 right now, I can usually run no ethanol 89 for a small savings, however local prices for blue handle stuff fluctuate even more than recent price changes.

<<<edit - note cut!

quote:

Originally posted by sigarmsp226:
Also ethanol free is $0.30 a gallon more for 87 octane.

You're lucky. Around here it's about $1.50/gallon higher.

Years ago on the daddy/daughter roadtrip to Utah noticed a huge difference in ethanol free gas. Truck was a 2015 Ford F-150 Supercrew with the 3.5 Ecoboost V-6. Leaving Phoenix cruising 75-80mph I was getting 17.5mpg. Filled up on a whim with, "Pure Unleaded" at a station in Utah and got 24mpg cruising at the same speeds.

quote:

Originally posted by snwghst:
Are you towing in D?

Gen 2 Tacoma with a 4L v-6 shouldnt be pinging

Snwghst - Yes Sir, I am towing in “D”. At 60-62mph the motor is running at about 2000-2100 rpm’s…..

quote:

Originally posted by preten2b:
I have a motor which recommends premium (not the wording "required"). I've noticed about 10% better mileage with the no ethanol gas. With premium octane gas around $4.80 right now, I can usually run no ethanol 89 for a small savings, however local prices for blue handle stuff fluctuate even more than recent price changes.

<<<edit - note cut!

Happen to be a vehicle with a factory turbo? Many motors these days are doing this especially those with factory turbos.
The computers can adjust pretty quickly now a days to different octane levels. Turbo motors like higher octane levels.
But many cars ever without turbos show a big difference.

My mother has an Equinox with the turbo and it can use any octane level but if you use 93 compared to 87 it’s almost like driving 2 different cars.
It’s worth it to use 93 for the better gas mileage and the noticeably more power.

IMO shopping for ethanol free gas is a waste of money, and probably time. As for why I believe this, I have a 1985 Monte Carlo SS that I purchased new. At this point it's on it's third engine (dropped a valve seat on #2) and it's third transmission (do NOT recommend Art Carr for street use) and it's original carburetor and fuel system. Total mileage at present is 248,247 and it's NEVER had any ethanol free gas in the tank. I'll also note that none of my lawnmowers ever had ethanol free gas in them. My lawn tractor was built in 1986 and still runs but does need a new front axle and carb so it's going to the curb soon.

Are these lead free gas products lead free? If leaded, what are the ramifications of running leaded gas through our modern engines designed to run 10% unleaded gas? I remember spark plug fouling in the old days.

quote:

Originally posted by sigarmsp226:
Thanks again guys for all of the feedback and recommendations. It has been at least two years since I ran a can of Seafoam through my truck so I think I will start there. I did just check my air filter and it is in great shape. By mileage it was changed 9,200 miles ago. I am going to run my next tank full of 92 octane (ethanol) and then try a Seafoam tankful treatment. If neither help I will get it in for a full tuneup.

Also ethanol free is $0.30 a gallon more for 87 octane. I may have errored in my follow up comments related to this.

Thanks to everyone for your help on this issue. Greatly appreciate the guidance and recommendations. Mark

I was debating on wether or not comment about using an additive occasionally to help clean out the engine but since someone else did…

I have been using a can of Chevron Techron in our vehicles about once a year and I get slightly better mileage when I do. I attended a Tech talk several years ago by an automotive engineer who recommended it and have been using it ever since.
You can find it in just about any autoparts store.

quote:

Originally posted by yanici:
Are these lead free gas products lead free? If leaded, what are the ramifications of running leaded gas through our modern engines designed to run 10% unleaded gas? I remember spark plug fouling in the old days.

I think it’s illegal to run leaded gas in your vehicle and I would be surprised if anyone sells it anymore.

Only “leaded” gas I know of is 100LL aviation fuel for non-turbine engines. Maybe high octane racing fuel??

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:

Happen to be a vehicle with a factory turbo? Many motors these days are doing this especially those with factory turbos.
The computers can adjust pretty quickly now a days to different octane levels. Turbo motors like higher octane levels.
But many cars ever without turbos show a big difference.

My mother has an Equinox with the turbo and it can use any octane level but if you use 93 compared to 87 it’s almost like driving 2 different cars.
It’s worth it to use 93 for the better gas mileage and the noticeably more power.

It makes me nervous to use a lower octane than "recommended". I have a turbo 4 cyl Audi that allows mid-grade but recommends premium. The ECU would have to detect knock to know to make adjustments, and knock is a bad thing. The transmission shift points are at super low rpm in D, so I usually use Sport mode to avoid lugging and knock. I always use premium.

It seems that lower octane would cause the computer to command a richer mixture and/or retarded spark. Which is less than ideal for economy and hp.

Modern combustion chamber designs plus direct injection is a whole different world than what I grew up with in the 60's and 70's. We tuned ignition timing by ear and played with spark plug heat ratings. A race car owner/mechanic explained to me years ago in great detail how using the lowest octane possible without getting knock is best for power and efficiency. I used to try to save a few pennies with lower octane when possible.

The turbo and modern engines, plus my wife's lead foot keep me using premium.