Just throwing this out there...

A pair of 3000w inverter generators, plus a parallel kit and a bunch of 12/3 extension cords is cheap and flexible.

We live semi-rural in WI. I’ve never felt the need for a ‘whole home’ generator.

I have a small one I’ve used camping & at our camp. I have rotated it around a few times, refrigerator, charging, etc during shorter power outages.

OBTW, I have a woodstove with plenty of firewood. I do realize, everyone has various requirements.

My small one is a Honda 2000 watt.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
Just throwing this out there...

A pair of 3000w inverter generators, plus a parallel kit and a bunch of 12/3 extension cords is cheap and flexible.

Except it won’t run a 230v well pump which most residential well pumps are.

We have had Generac’s for 30 years at different locations. When the electricity fails, it is suddenly a modest investment!

For these 20kw Generac and other standby units that are running on propane, what size propane tank do y'all have? What size is recommended?

I have a buried 120 gallon propane tank that powers the pool heater, fireplace and gas grill. Wondering if that is large enough to run a standby unit for an extended period of time.

quote:

Originally posted by holdem:
For these 20kw Generac and other standby units that are running on propane, what size propane tank do y'all have? What size is recommended?

I have a buried 120 gallon propane tank that powers the pool heater, fireplace and gas grill. Wondering if that is large enough to run a standby unit for an extended period of time.

Generac states that the propane consumption is 2.4 gallons/hour at 50% load. The 20kw Generac we have runs 5 minutes once weekly to self test and maintain. And ours is hooked to a dedicated 500 gallon tank with another 250 gallon tank that runs the cookstove and dearborn heater for backup.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: arfmel,

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
Just throwing this out there...

A pair of 3000w inverter generators, plus a parallel kit and a bunch of 12/3 extension cords is cheap and flexible.

Except it won’t run a 230v well pump which most residential well pumps are.

What is the current demand on your pump ?

Several more great discussion points. I realize the thread has generated responses from those with different requirements and inputs than I have, as well as interest from others also contemplating a backup system. One of the biggest attractions for the piece of property we built our house on was the availability of natural gas so that we did not have to depend on propane. We’ve got experience with propane in other places we’ve lived and the expense (in our case, often when we could least afford it) and hassle of scheduling propane delivery, made the availability of this acreage with a natural gas supply very attractive to us. I suppose there could be disruption of the supply, but that’s a chance I’ll take. If the route I take, as suggested by some, is a portable generator, I can store gasoline (or diesel I suppose) away from the house in a 20’ x 10’ shed I have on the property for tractor mower, fuel, spray rig, etc. Appreciate ya’ll

I had a 6.5 kW portable generator in our old house with a double throw disconnect switch wired by my electrician. Used it about half a dozen times but one time we forgot to get gas and we’re left hanging…

Fast forward to present day and we’ve recently bought a new house and in looking at all my options I am contemplating getting a Tesla Powerwall or the Generac equivalent. There are a lot of advantages to using a battery back up but I have to verify it can power my heat pump and other major appliances as needed.

The problem with portables is most are incorrectly connected to the house. Even when using a portable generator plug and transfer switch.

Most portable generators have neutral/ground bond because it is assumed they’ll be used independently. When connecting to your house, if the neutral isn’t interrupted, then there are two sources of bonding. This will probably work fine for most everybody, until there is a fault.

I don’t have this type of setup, but I *think* you’re supposed to separate the bond on the generator and drive a grounding rod to attach the generator chassis in this situation.

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Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

I don’t have this type of setup, but I *think* you’re supposed to separate the bond on the generator and drive a grounding rod to attach the generator chassis in this situation.

I think you are correct. Mine specified just that if connecting to the house, so I drove a copper rod down into the ground and connect the grounding cable clamp to it.

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
I had a 6.5 kW portable generator in our old house with a double throw disconnect switch wired by my electrician. Used it about half a dozen times but one time we forgot to get gas and we’re left hanging…

Fast forward to present day and we’ve recently bought a new house and in looking at all my options I am contemplating getting a Tesla Powerwall or the Generac equivalent. There are a lot of advantages to using a battery back up but I have to verify it can power my heat pump and other major appliances as needed.

Generac offers some pretty innovative solutions to these types of problems. They have a soft start unit and the power management modules. These seem to offer more flexibility to a set up versus the Tesla system.

quote:

Originally posted by selogic:

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
Just throwing this out there...

A pair of 3000w inverter generators, plus a parallel kit and a bunch of 12/3 extension cords is cheap and flexible.

Except it won’t run a 230v well pump which most residential well pumps are.

What is the current demand on your pump ?

I don’t know. The one well is 280’ while the other is 310’. They’re both artesian so we get to cheat a bit on the pump size.

What does that have to do with running a 230v pump on generator that only produces 115v? If you try it, only half the windings on the motor will be energized.

I have a well, with no soft start or other wizardry and it takes 20 amps @240v to comfortably start the well pump. Thus at my house we have prioritized heat, water, refrigerator and lights and we can live comfortably on 9000 watts over the long haul. We have electric storage hot water so for a couple of days you can have a hot shower. After that I have to make some load shedding to reheat the tank.
I watched ebay and other sites for awhile and found a UL listed new 200amp manual transfer switch for $200. My electrician charged me $600 to install it and the necessary plug for the generator. I paid $200 for the necessary cord so the cost of connecting on a whole house basis was $1000. Best money I ever spent. Obviously you have the cost of the generator above that.
But they last a very long time in this intermittent use.

Trapper, all the windings would be energized (single phase inductive motor only has start and run windings), but the motor will only have 1/4 the HP of 230v power. Chances are, it wouldn’t even overcome rotor lock. If it did manage to start, it may burn up from the doubling in amperage caused by halving the voltage. I don’t know what it would do to the run capacitor. I don’t know enough about caps to understand how their voltages work (what makes voltages to the cap 370 or 440v, for example).

Assuming the parallel generators can make enough power and the motor doesn’t have an inrush requirement greater than the generators can supply, it would be better to use a 120/240 step-up transformer to power the well pump. I don’t think they’re that expensive, $200-300 dollars. In all reality, this is more awkward than just getting a generator capable of 240v output.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by selogic:

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
Just throwing this out there...

A pair of 3000w inverter generators, plus a parallel kit and a bunch of 12/3 extension cords is cheap and flexible.

Except it won’t run a 230v well pump which most residential well pumps are.

What is the current demand on your pump ?

I don’t know. The one well is 280’ while the other is 310’. They’re both artesian so we get to cheat a bit on the pump size.

What does that have to do with running a 230v pump on generator that only produces 115v? If you try it, only half the windings on the motor will be energized.

I never said it had anything to do with it . I was curious about your well pump since I never had any dealings with one .

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
Trapper, all the windings would be energized (single phase inductive motor only has start and run windings), but the motor will only have 1/4 the HP of 230v power. Chances are, it wouldn’t even overcome rotor lock. If it did manage to start, it may burn up from the doubling in amperage caused by halving the voltage. I don’t know what it would do to the run capacitor. I don’t know enough about caps to understand how their voltages work (what makes voltages to the cap 370 or 440v, for example).

Assuming the parallel generators can make enough power and the motor doesn’t have an inrush requirement greater than the generators can supply, it would be better to use a 120/240 step-up transformer to power the well pump. I don’t think they’re that expensive, $200-300 dollars. In all reality, this is more awkward than just getting a generator capable of 240v output.

Thank you. I had a small pool pump that could be either and assumed it had something to do with the amount of windings. I was guessing that at half the voltage there would be twice as much of the windings energized with double the amperage to get the same HP as double the voltage with half the amperage. I freely admit spinning wires in a magnetic field to create electricity is right there with voodoo to me.

5000 watts seems to be the break between 120 and 240 generators. I misspoke saying 115/230, I was thinking 110/220. I’ve been looking at generators a lot these last few days. It seems the inverter type are the ones you run in parallel but that only doubles the amperage, not the voltage. That works with travel trailers and 5th wheels because most only use 110v equipment. It won’t work for my house though.

It also seems the inverter type don’t have the starting power the non-inverter type do. As an example, the Yamaha EF6300 has starting power of 6300 watts and 5500 watts continuous, where as, my Briggs and Stratton has 8800 watts starting power and 5800 watts continuous.

After seven days using a portable generator to run my house, I’ve learned a few things. First and foremost, the one I have is way too loud to run at night. It’s on the same wall as the kids’ bedrooms. My fridge and apparently a lot of the new energy efficient fridges have to have power almost the whole day. Running them for 12 hours and off 12 doesn’t work. It think a second 110v receptacle with a separate subpanel for the pool pump and fridge are needed so I can run them with a smaller inverter generator at night. I could probably run them with my existing setup as long as they are on the same leg in the panel. I’d have to come up with an adaptor to connect my 4-prong cord to the 3-prong outlet on the generator.

quote:

After seven days using a portable generator to run my house, I’ve learned a few things. First and foremost, the one I have is way too loud to run at night. It’s on the same wall as the kids’ bedrooms. My fridge and apparently a lot of the new energy efficient fridges have to have power almost the whole day. Running them for 12 hours and off 12 doesn’t work. It think a second 110v receptacle with a separate subpanel for the pool pump and fridge are needed so I can run them with a smaller inverter generator at night. I could probably run them with my existing setup as long as they are on the same leg in the panel. I’d have to come up with an adaptor to connect my 4-prong cord to the 3-prong outlet on the generator.

Instead of a second generator, you might consider adding a mid-size portable power station (solar generator) to run the fridge through the night, and let your existing generator charge it back up (and run the fridge) during the day. No noise at night.

That's what I use, with some temporary solar panels for the sunny days. Might get by without the generator at all on sunny days.

I don't know, I just want to ask, what about an option of buying a good used gas or diesel welder, can't those also provide 220 volt and good amps? I'm talking about the ones the professional welders put on the bed of a mobil rig. Seems like those units are very well built, reliable and long lasting.

Thanks.
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