SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Why does it seem like European cars are so unreliable and high maintenance?
Main Page The Lounge Why does it seem like European cars are so unreliable and high maintenance?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Member |
A fair observation, but I think it's effect rather than cause. Euro cars are so maintenance-intense that nobody really wants to own one if they can afford not to, so they lease. The rest of us buy on the used car market because the cars are so depreciated that one can make an argument for owning at that point. The place I bought both of my M-B's at, purchased returned lease-cars, then sold them as used cars. The C320 I owned actually cost the same or a little less than the Chevy Cruze I later bought new. By the way, the M-B was an excellent car to drive, and the Cruze is a turd on the road. The M-B, however, broke on me several times and had a nearly-inoperable engine info system in the dash. The Cruze has been almost 100% reliable, only requiring a rear-shock replacement under recall or warranty (don't remember which), and maintenance has been oil, filters, tires and brakes for these first 40,000 miles. -------------------------- Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -- H L Mencken I always prefer reality when I can figure out what it is. -- JALLEN 10/18/18 | |||
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Member |
Ain't that the truth. I have a lot of experience with British built engines, and I was having this conversation the other day with my mechanic regarding a pair of our brand new Rolls-Royce BR-725-A1-12 motors. His opinion was that these were the best engines that Rolls has produced, because they leak the least amount of oil compared to our previous motors, and I differed in my opinion that they still shouldn't leak. Apparently the concept of leaky motors is just the standard, so you'll know when it's time to add oil. When it's not leaking! | |||
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| Ammoholic |
My older brother had a Fiat 124 sport coupe when he went off to college. He could never decide whether FIAT stood for Fix It Again Tony or Fix It All the Time. Fun to drive, but what a pain in the posterior. | |||
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| Member |
That was a beautiful little car, and a perfect example of European thinking: Wonderful handling, nice-performing engine (for 1438cc's), excellent transmission, etc. Maintenance was easy if you were the least-bit mechanical, until the major stuff started to go. I raced a 124TC in SCCA Showroom Stock Sedan, then drove it on the street for several years afterwards, until the cost of maintenance exceeded the cost to replace. That was 4 years, and about 45,000 miles. -------------------------- Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -- H L Mencken I always prefer reality when I can figure out what it is. -- JALLEN 10/18/18 | |||
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| Ammoholic |
I don't know that you can lump British cars in with European cars. European cars have their issues, but with British cars it is a continuing saga of Fuel pump, Water pump, Clutch, rinse and repeat. I won't mention Lucas electronics as that has already been covered. Oh, and Solex carburetors were designed for chaps that didn't have anything better to do every other weekend than take them apart and clean the varnish off the needle with a bit of steel wool. The nice thing I can say about the G reg Morris 1300 I had when I was working in London back in the mid eighties was that I didn't drive it enough to have to do the fuel pump, water pump, clutch dance on it. That damned Solex carb made up for it though... | |||
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Member |
Didn't Lucas go out of business in the mid-90s? And even now British cars are unreliable. So maybe the tradition carries on? __________________________________ An operator is someone who picks up the phone when I dial 0. | |||
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Caribou gorn |
I've had almost no maintenance issues with my two Mercedes. I'll continue to buy American trucks and German cars until I experience otherwise, not just read about it on the internet. I'm gonna vote for the funniest frog with the loudest croak on the highest log. | |||
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| Member |
Looks like they shorted out for the final time in 1996. Their products were pathetic, but I also had Marelli failures on my Fiat and Alfa. -------------------------- Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -- H L Mencken I always prefer reality when I can figure out what it is. -- JALLEN 10/18/18 | |||
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| Member |
How old were they when you let them go? -------------------------- Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -- H L Mencken I always prefer reality when I can figure out what it is. -- JALLEN 10/18/18 | |||
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| Caribou gorn |
Sold a 2009 E-Class back in December. It had ~125k. Tires were expensive because they are asymmetrical and cannot be rotated front to back. I think I fixed a tensioner pulley and maybe one other thing. I think I spent about $1200 on it actually fixing things in 5.5 years. Oil changes were $100 every 10k miles. Replaced it with a 2013 M-Class with 38l miles on it. Fantastic vehicle. I'm gonna vote for the funniest frog with the loudest croak on the highest log. | |||
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Cat Whisperer |
sure Fiat is last, but BMW, Porsche, and Audi were the top three... ------------------------------------ 135 ├┼┼╕ 246R | |||
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| Leave the gun. Take the cannoli. |
Forum claims of no maintenance issues with MB, BMW, and the rest are anecdotal evidence. The real proof is in the residual values and resale values of these cars. Values are in the tank for a reason. | |||
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Legalize the Constitution |
I owned a '65 MGB. I'd like to say it was fun to drive, but it was broke all the time and wouldn't start if the thermometer dropped to 32* "Prince of Darkness" made me smile. Late at night on a two-lane highway west of Omaha. Flying along at 60 or 65 when suddenly--complete darkness. Jeez-oh-Pete, what a feeling. We're giving German car ownership a try. I started a thread a couple months ago about our interest in buying a Corvette. We rented one for a weekend and just didn't love it. Ended up with a low mileage, 10 YO, lovingly cared for, garaged and covered--Carrera 4S. _______________________________________________________ despite them | |||
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| Member |
Seven years and 125K miles is about the right time to dump it to avoid problems, but nearly any American or Asian vehicle will do better. I agree, they are fantastic vehicles, and I really miss being able to afford them now that I'm retired. My early E-Class was the nicest car I ever owned. The C-Class was a noticeable step down, but still a great car. -------------------------- Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -- H L Mencken I always prefer reality when I can figure out what it is. -- JALLEN 10/18/18 | |||
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| Member |
 -------------------------- Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -- H L Mencken I always prefer reality when I can figure out what it is. -- JALLEN 10/18/18 | |||
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| Middle children of history  |
If you are trading the car in for a new one every 3 years you are essentially leasing it, and you would likely not see much of a difference. The reliability differences typically become apparent after the OEM warranty has expired which is what most of us here are talking about. That is by design, as any OEM would bankrupt itself with extensive reliability issues while still under the warranty period. The chart below shows what many here have personally experienced. After the 3 or 4-year OEM warranty expires the trend of problems per 100 vehicles for the German makes shows a big difference when compared with Toyota and Honda. A 10-year old VW product will have over 2 times as many problems per 100 vehicles than a 10-year old Toyota product. The original source of this chart was Consumer Reports in 2011. I'm sure there is a more recent version of the time-phased reliability but CR probably wants a paid membership to view it. http://www.bimmerfest.com/foru...=294563&d=1316963882 | |||
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| Caribou gorn |
interesting that the graph is pretty linear for almost all makes.
graph posted above doesn't seem to agree, though it doesn't take into account the severity of the "problem" in terms of functionality or cost. I'm gonna vote for the funniest frog with the loudest croak on the highest log. | |||
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| Rail-less and Tail-less |
I usually have two cars. Buy one lease one. I have had older cars like my last Z4 which is sold earlier this year was a 2003 but it only had 39k miles. According to the graph BMW is still better than GM and Chrysler. For me driving fun and aesthetics count for a lot. Japanese cars drive and feel hollow to me. They don't feel Substantial. Honda paint is total shit. It's thinner than anorexia. Toyotas are just uninspired. I just can't do it. _______________________________________________ Use thumb-size bullets to create fist-size holes. | |||
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| Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock  |
This is how... Daily driver: 2009 Toyota Yaris... Weekender: 1987 Ferrari Mondial...  ---------------------------- "Voldemorte himself created his worst enemy, just as tyrants everywhere do! Have you any idea how much tyrants fear the people they oppress? All of them realize that, one day, amongst their many victims, there is sure to be one who rises against them and strikes back!" Book 6 - Ch 23 | |||
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Alienator |
The reason is that they are. You are overpaying for a Brand and they are notoriously low on quality except for Porsche. Owners know to sell their new BMW, Audi, Mercedes, ect before the warranty expires. SIG556 Classic P220 Carry SAS Gen 2 SAO SP2022 9mm German Triple Serial P938 SAS P365 FDE P322 FDE Psalm 118:24 "This is the day which the Lord hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it" | |||
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SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Why does it seem like European cars are so unreliable and high maintenance?
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