Driving my GMC the first time the cruise decided it needed to brake and drop speed at 80 MPH was when I turned that feature off, even if you know it's there, the first time at higher speeds it can be disconcerting.

Same for the lane change avoidance, that drives me nuts, on a 4 lane want to change lanes and it pushes back on the steering, you have to force it to change ie more pressure and it can fight back some making the vehicle slightly swerve/rock. That shit got turned off too while getting aclimated.

Nice thing is for now you can turn them off, wait until DC decides you need that help, the insurance industry decides to put bigger money into it to reduce collisions and you don't have a choice as it's mandated on manufacturing companies.

Backup cameras are nice, but they would be less necessary if you could see out the back of the car in the first place. Most cars - including mine - have high "bustle"-like rear decklids you can't see over and pinched-in corners that you can't see even in your mirrors, and all these damned "crossovers" have this plus narrow rear windows.

The first car I personally owned - and it was a hand-me-down - was a 1966 Chrysler Newport. It had a lot of shortcomings, but one it didn't have was visibility. You could look out of the greenhouse-like windows and see all four corners of the car, even though it was nearly 25 feet long.

Automation is different than something to provide information in the moment when it is helpful. Backup cameras are a good example of helpful information.

Automation which take over the task of operating the vehicle create new hazards. Humans are terrible at monitoring. This is a task that actually is well suited to automation, and we already have a lot of good stuff like that such as tire pressure monitors, or various warning lights on the dashboard for things like high coolant temperature or low fuel.

But automation that controls the vehicle such as cruise control or lane centering require active monitoring by the driver to ensure the systems are doing what they are supposed to do, and to also monitor the outside environment to identify hazards or changes which require driver intervention. In concept the automation takes the rote chores from us so that we can improve safety by attending to the big picture.

And this is exactly where the human is terrible at the required task! Humans get lazy, bored, complacent, and distracted. As long as the tech works properly and nothing unplanned happens in the environment, things can go well. But, the brain is not nearly attentive enough, and misses when things start going bad.

We all know to be extra alert when we see children in the neighborhood, or bicyclists on the road, or notice vehicles up ahead stopped, or hear sirens. The automation is going to make drivers less aware of these things, not more aware.

I have my first vehicle with driver assist and accident avoidance. I've turn off anything I can as I absolutely HATE the beeping, braking, and seat belt tightening when the car in front will be out of the way by the time I get there. Cruise control brakes because it is fooled by traffic in right lane, on curves.

The car is faster then I am, but it's not smarter.

Many of you mentioned the young drivers or becoming overly dependent. I could easy see where the differences between makes, and future models will lead to unintended consequences for the unaware.

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:

Automation which take over the task of operating the vehicle create new hazards. Humans are terrible at monitoring

I had an instrument student who was dependent on automation; he wanted to use the autopilot for everything.

Problem was, he was not able to grasp the concept of monitoring what the autopilot was doing. There were several buttons / switches on the left thumb plate of the pilot yoke, two of these controls would take the autopilot off line. My student would frequently bump one of these without realizing what he had done.

The autopilot disconnect was accompanied by a loud, shrill warning tone. My student was completely oblivious to the tone and I would sit there watching, in an airplane that nobody was flying, not the "pilot," not the autopilot. The student would eventually wake up and ask "What's happening?"

Fortunately for all of us, he decided that his modern, well-equipped Bonanza was too expensive to keep, so he sold it and stopped flying. Nice guy really, but definitely not pilot material.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Same for the lane change avoidance, that drives me nuts, on a 4 lane want to change lanes and it pushes back on the steering, you have to force it to change ie more pressure and it can fight back some making the vehicle slightly swerve/rock. That shit got turned off too while getting aclimated.

Don't turn signals allow for this to be avoided?

They do, but how many people use a turn signal to avoid a pot hole which actually happened to me this morning. Then there’s the pedestrians, bicyclists, mailman, garbage trucks, armadillos (3:00am Monday morning), etc.

Going around corners on a two lane blacktop is exciting. The people on the outside heading the opposite direction can’t stay on their side of the yellow line. This forces me to ride the white line on my side, but the lane keeping takes issue with this.

Sure. I guess I could expand the use of my turn signals to include situations where I am not turning or changing lanes.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
I had an instrument student who was dependent on automation; he wanted to use the autopilot for everything.

Problem was, he was not able to grasp the concept of monitoring what the autopilot was doing. There were several buttons / switches on the left thumb plate of the pilot yoke, two of these controls would take the autopilot off line. My student would frequently bump one of these without realizing what he had done.

The autopilot disconnect was accompanied by a loud, shrill warning tone. My student was completely oblivious to the tone and I would sit there watching, in an airplane that nobody was flying, not the "pilot," not the autopilot. The student would eventually wake up and ask "What's happening?"

Fortunately for all of us, he decided that his modern, well-equipped Bonanza was too expensive to keep, so he sold it and stopped flying. Nice guy really, but definitely not pilot material.

Good thing that guy realized it wasn't for him.

Distraction in the airline cockpit is a big problem with the automation. There have been numerous high altitude low speed events due to very gradual airspeed deterioration. One crew I know got into trouble at night in turbulent conditions (so they didn't have seat of the pants or outside visual cues). As soon as they got into cruise they started briefing and programming the complicated arrival and approach they expected, plus briefed possible different runways and approaches they might be assigned. They did not notice the AutoThrottle was deselected, and were distracted from monitoring because they had so much programming and managing of the system itself! The system will fly the airplane very well, but the tradeoff is more time required before the fact in order to reduce workload during the arrival/approach.

And people trust the tech way to much! I saw a lot of that in the airline with younger pilots. The younger they are, the more they dislike turning off the automation. Sometimes you just need to stop pushing buttons and just fly the damn airplane!

When everything is going easily, the autoflight stuff certainly eases the workload on arrival and approach. But when things start happening, the best response is usually to just turn off the autopilot and hand fly with either raw data or the flight director. Unfortunately this is both heavily discouraged in airline training (*for a few reasons) and increasingly designed out of the software. In the old days of Time Turn Twist Throttle Tires Talk it was how we flew. Nowadays everything has to be pre-programmed into The Box. When tower asks us to switch to the parallel runway inside the FAF, yeah not really going to be possible even if we're fully visual. Even when 20 miles out it is a mad scramble to reprogram The Box for a different runway.

* The airlines are squashing down training times as much as possible to save $ and get new guys out on line asap. As a line check airman I witnessed this change happening from about 2004 onward. We used to have to know every system in every detail, and be able to hand fly the nightmare of a 4 hour checkride in the simulator. Now the new guys are told Gear Up, Autopilot On..... Decision Altitude, Autopilot Off. But the young pilots also love programming The Box, and they are a bit scared of hand flying because they don't do much of it. Not like us old dinosaurs who hand flew cargo in the worst weather in crappy airplanes all night long.

It is a Brave New World for sure. I feel so out of date with modern philosophies.

If you need and depend on those features to drive a car you should probably give up driving and take a Uber.

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
If you need and depend on those features to drive a car you should probably give up driving and take a Uber.

Will the self-driving features get out if the car and call another driver a crack baby whore like the Uber driver my wife hired in Nashville did? Or scratch the paint on my F350’s driver’s side rear fender like an Uber driver in Lexington did?

quote:

Originally posted by Georgeair:

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Same for the lane change avoidance, that drives me nuts, on a 4 lane want to change lanes and it pushes back on the steering, you have to force it to change ie more pressure and it can fight back some making the vehicle slightly swerve/rock. That shit got turned off too while getting aclimated.

Don't turn signals allow for this to be avoided?

They do, but it still pushes back a bit, and not every lane change needs a TS to be used such as changing lanes on a 4 lane interstate where nobody is behind you and the vehicle you are going to overtake is a 1/4 ahead

Like trapper said, you want to change lanes to avoid a hazard and the car fights your decision to swerve, move to the edge etc. It's easily turned off.

quote:

While that’s true, you can only choose from what they have available

Last month, my wife & I went on a vacation for our anniversary. Six months prior, we reserved a vehicle and a room at our desired location. Got to the car rental and was told "that vehicle is not available" as in, we don't have one ready! I told them I paid extra for the vehicle and they had better find one.

After an hour, we got a the desired vehicle. Many times while waiting, I told the "manager" that I used their brand exclusively and this is what I get for loyalty. He knew I was not pleased.

I wasn't going to let them offer me any other vehicle. Put your foot down and get what you paid for!