quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Meanwhile, exactly 100 years ago in 1921, Irish civilians successfully utilized actual firearms (not just air guns) to end British rule of the island and establish themselves as a self-governing free state...

I think you may have just proved why the government doesn't want the citizenry to own guns.

The Irish fought off the British with arms. After that, what prompted the gun law conditions there now.

BTW, I have some Irish roots. The largest part of this family tree branch according to internet sources are the British occupiers with small Irish branches in and around West Meath. Lord North is in my tree And even farther back in another branch, Kings and Dukes, including William the Conqueror. (All this if you can trust the ancestry internet. Family lore does include being related to Lord North and it is documented his cousins fought on our side)

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by tacfoley:

Sorry, Sir, you have it wrong. It is NOT wrong to defend yourself in Irish law - no more than it is in UK law.

Remember that we can't do it with our legally-held guns because they are locked up.

These two statements seem to be in conflict with each other. Seems like we have vastly different ideas as to what constitutes self-defense when protecting home and family.

Well, let us be simplistic about this.

1. You can have a gun of most kinds for any reason, including self defence.

2. In UK and most other countries, we can't.

There, I've made it easy for you.

quote:

Originally posted by Hamden106:

The Irish fought off the British with arms. After that, what prompted the gun law conditions there now.

After the British left the twenty-six counties of the Free State, the Irish had a Civil War.

The bitterness from that lasts even today, and the two main political parties trust each other as much now as they did at the end of the Civil War.

There IS a good deal of legal shooting in the RoI, the deer are plentiful and so are the foxes and other pests. But by comparison even with the UK those numbers of legal rifles arms holders are small, although there are many shotguns - it is still a mainly rural economy, remember.

All I know from my years as the president of the Vintage Rifle association of Ireland is just how incredibly difficult it all is, with 26 counties, each ruled by a Superintendent Garda who makes up his own mind whether he likes you or not, to let you have a firearm. Some are amenable, bearing in mind the the law itself is clear, and some are not, and inconveniently 'forget to do' the necessary paperwork. Remember, too, that each and every firearm needs its own license. and for all but about forty elite shooters, there is no reloading. No black powder shooting of any kind, either.

And to make a point - an important one, that is often overlooked in the 'haze of green', the six counties of Northern Ireland, who refused to be included along with the other twenty-six counties of the Free State, are part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Tac, what is their stance on airsoft guns and modified airsoft guns? Years ago before I got into actual guns I modified the absolute hell out of a fully automatic M4 airsoft rifle, I tore open the gearbox, installed stronger parts to withstand the stress of a high speed high torque motor and heavier spring as well as a MUCH stronger battery. The end result was an airsoft gun that would draw blood at close range, hit surprisingly hard even at 25 yards and could spray an ungodly amount of 6mm BBs. I never had to worry about honesty when we would skirmish in the woods because the gun was damn painful. Have they banned those yet?

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
Tac, what is their stance on airsoft guns and modified airsoft guns? Years ago before I got into actual guns I modified the absolute hell out of a fully automatic M4 airsoft rifle, I tore open the gearbox, installed stronger parts to withstand the stress of a high speed high torque motor and heavier spring as well as a MUCH stronger battery. The end result was an airsoft gun that would draw blood at close range, hit surprisingly hard even at 25 yards and could spray an ungodly amount of 6mm BBs. I never had to worry about honesty when we would skirmish in the woods because the gun was damn painful. Have they banned those yet?

LEGAL NOTICE
Are airsoft imitation firearms and other realistic replicas legal?

Airsoft guns are legal in Ireland since the 2006 Criminal Justice Act altered the Firearms Acts.

As such, any airsoft gun thats muzzle energy is one joule or less is no longer classified as a firearm. No license is required for an airsoft gun.

HOWEVER. Airsoft guns are now classed as Real Imitation Firearms (RIFs) and cannot be carried in public at ANY TIME. Even if you are carrying your RIF to the boot of your car, you MUST have it in a suitable carry case. If you are playing on private land with the permission of the owner, you must still ensure you are out of sight of the general public. If any member of the public feels threatened by what they see, they may well contact the authorities and you could find yourself in serious trouble.

Penalties for carrying a RIF (Real Imitation Firearms) in a public place include up to a €5000 fine or imprisonment up to 5 years, or both.

Air Soft Guns are not toys! They are used for target practise and war games and only by persons that are at least 18 years old. Make sure always to wear safety goggles or full face masks.

The impact of an Airsoft round will sting sharply for a few seconds and may leave a small bruise or red mark if it hits bare skin. The low velocity and low weight of the Airsoft round ensures its safe use by players

An Garda Síochána

The information below is intended to inform handlers of airsoft replica’s as to the some of the powers of An Garda Síochána in the circumstance of the handler giving reason to be stopped. This list is by no means comprehensive.

When transporting, or in the possession of replica firearms handlers should ALWAYS act with due care and discretion so as to avoid the possibility of causing any form of distress to any member of the general public.

Mishandling of Replica Firearms which, intentionally or otherwise, causes alarm to a member of the general public is classed as assault and will be viewed as such in the eyes of the law.

An Garda Síochána will ALWAYS treat replica firearms with the same prejudice as actual firearms.

Well, you read it there - MORE than 1 Joule ME and it's a firearm. Modify your Airsoft toy at your peril.

Remember that in the RoI ALL bullpup design stocks are illegal, so no L85s or AUGs or Famas airsoft toys.

Wow that is incredibly sad. Those mods make it a great training rifle as it gives you more effective range and keeps people honest. We all modded our rifles past 1 joule easily and eventually made makeshift body armor because of that. :

I don’t know if you would call it a toy if you got hit with one full auto at point blank with the heavy BBs we used. I suppose you could call it a toy but you could really hurt someone with a properly modified rifle. Which I suppose is why they banned doing that. Pretty lame but hardly surprising. Some of them are really best viewed at as BB guns with a built in air compressor that allows it to fire fully automatic. Damn shame they figured that out.

Is it really to keep people safe? Or is it to keep people from becoming gun enthusiasts and realizing all that has been taken from them?

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
Wow that is incredibly sad. Those mods make it a great training rifle as it gives you more effective range and keeps people honest. We all modded our rifles past 1 joule easily and eventually made makeshift body armor because of that. :

I don’t know if you would call it a toy if you got hit with one full auto at point blank with the heavy BBs we used. I suppose you could call it a toy but you could really hurt someone with a properly modified rifle. Which I suppose is why they banned doing that. Pretty lame but hardly surprising. Some of them are really best viewed at as BB guns with a built in air compressor that allows it to fire fully automatic. Damn shame they figured that out.

Is it really to keep people safe? Or is it to keep people from becoming gun enthusiasts and realizing all that has been taken from them?

They know.

They can go to the North and see how much better things are up there, and before you say WTF? how can the UK be better?

1. In the North there is one certificate for as many guns as you have.

2. They can can reload for all the guns they have.

3. They can have a rifle with a bull-pup stock of ANY colour.

4. There are no five-shot restrictions on handguns of any kind.

5. There are no ten-shot restrictions on rifles of any kind.

6. There are no restrictions on the calibre of any rifle you want. In the RoI a .303 is unrestricted, but a .308 is restricted and requires even more physical security...

7. In the North you can shoot IPSC/Police Pistol and Practical shotgun - in the RoI all these are classed as terrorist training and are totally illegal. NO firing and movement - of any kind is legal.

8. Black powder shooting is a given.

So although the UK is bad, the RoI is badderer.

Well damn. Thanks for the info Tac. It gives me a bit of perspective for sure. Our 2A has been neutered quite a bit but I am thankful not to have to deal with that. We are in a way experiencing a 2A renaissance with lots and lot and lots of new first time gun owners. It’s why our treasonous media has all but declared war on the 2A while hypocritically having armed security in many cases.

I take comfort in knowing I’ll never be disarmed. That’s a world I won’t live in.

quote:

Originally posted by tacfoley:

Well, let us be simplistic about this.

1. You can have a gun of most kinds for any reason, including self defence.

2. In UK and most other countries, we can't.

There, I've made it easy for you.

So in Irish law as well as in UK law, it is indeed wrong to defend oneself in that case. Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by tacfoley:

Well, let us be simplistic about this.

1. You can have a gun of most kinds for any reason, including self defence.

2. In UK and most other countries, we can't.

There, I've made it easy for you.

So in Irish law as well as in UK law, it is indeed wrong to defend oneself in that case. Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.

Well, if the only tool / technique you have is a gun, you may be right. Some might argue that there are other tools you can use.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by tacfoley:

Well, let us be simplistic about this.

1. You can have a gun of most kinds for any reason, including self defence.

2. In UK and most other countries, we can't.

There, I've made it easy for you.

So in Irish law as well as in UK law, it is indeed wrong to defend oneself in that case. Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.

Well, if the only tool / technique you have is a gun, you may be right. Some might argue that there are other tools you can use.

Correct. In the last fifteen years, at least FIVE intruders have been killed by the homeowner defending themselves, most often using the weapon brought in by the intruder. On one occasion the homeowner used a decorative Samurai sword to great and lasting effect.

All home-owners walked free.

However, since Mr Balzé-Halzé insists on continuing to misunderstand me, here is the official word from the Home Office -

Quote - Using reasonable force against intruders.
You can use reasonable force to protect yourself or others if a crime is taking place inside your home.

This means you can:

protect yourself ‘in the heat of the moment’ - this includes using an object as a weapon,
stop an intruder running off - for example by tackling them to the ground.

There’s no specific definition of ‘reasonable force’ - it depends on the circumstances. If you only did what you honestly thought was necessary at the time, this would provide strong evidence that you acted within the law. Read guidance from the Crown Prosecution Service.

You do not have to wait to be attacked before defending yourself in your home.

However, you could be prosecuted if, for example, you:

carry on attacking the intruder even if you’re no longer in danger.

pre-plan a trap for someone - rather than involve the police.

End quote.

I'll say it again, just in case I wasn't clear enough about 8000 posts ago -

In UK, the reasons for ownership of a firearm does NOT include self defence. UNLESS you live in Northern Ireland, and are in an occupation that is likely to have you targetted by the still-extant terrorist groups. These occupations include the judiciary, police, legal council and politicians who are NOT sympathetic to the Republican cause, since most of the terrorism is carried out by people claiming to be Republicans - that is, when they are not white-slaving or drug-dealing. As mentioned a gazillion times before, there are around 3500 handguns ISSUED by the government for CCW purposes.

Meanwhile, those people, like me, who DO have firearms, and do NOT feel threatened during their everyday lives, are required to keep our guns locked away when not in use elsewhere.

Ammunition is stored separately.

This is the case in most Western countries, many of which have more draconian gun laws than UK, although most Americans are unware of this fact.

6'4" Scottish footballer and hardman Duncan Ferguson has famously twice "detained" burglers he found in his house. One the police had to take directly to the hospital. No charges.

Unfortunately, he has also been involved in some scuffles both on (nine straight red cards) and off the pitch where he has been cautioned or charged.

quote:

Originally posted by tacfoley:


However, since Mr Balzé-Halzé insists on continuing to misunderstand me, here is the official word from the Home Office -

No, I understand you very well. You are not permitted by law to use the most effective weapon available to you for self-defense. That is perfectly clear. There is no need to endlessly keep explaining that.

What's truly missing from this discussion is that the Webley in question is actually a very nice, well-made little airgun. Not sure I'd use if for self-defense, though.

In the ROI, I think I would rather thump an intruder with a shillelagh than an air pistol.

Excellent post tac!

If your dad took part in the 1921 battle to declare sovereignty from England, how old are you?

quote:

Originally posted by Warhorse:
Excellent post tac!

If your dad took part in the 1921 battle to declare sovereignty from England, how old are you?

I'm 75, Sir. So far.

My father was born in 1904, and was active in what was then called the IRA from the age of about 15 -16. He was injured blowing up a police station in 1921. It was NOT a battle, but a long and prolonged guerilla war - see the movie 'Michael Collins', another Cork man, like my father.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by tacfoley:


However, since Mr Balzé-Halzé insists on continuing to misunderstand me, here is the official word from the Home Office -

No, I understand you very well. You are not permitted by law to use the most effective weapon available to you for self-defense. That is perfectly clear. There is no need to endlessly keep explaining that.

Sigh. It is NOT available to us for self-defence.

Tac, I enjoy your posts. That’s wild about your father. I bet he had some incredible stories.

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
Tac, I enjoy your posts. That’s wild about your father. I bet he had some incredible stories.

He did, that's for sure. and I miss them, and the man telling them.

He's been gone fifty years on November 5th this year. It's so strange to think that I've already lived four years longer than he did.