quote:

Easy...

According to the manufacturer the Jayco has a gvwr of 16,500 pounds...

The towing capacity of a 2002 gmc 2500HD has a fifth wheel towing capacity of between 13,200 and 15,400 depending on its particular configuration...the gvwr of the HD is 9200 pounds

The gvwr of the rig could be as high as 25,700 pounds but he will be over his towing limit by at least 1100 pounds...

That's now how it works, but everything you just spelled out does indeed prove that he's OK to tow it.

You take the numbers that it can weigh and subtract the number that it does weigh. If there's a non-negative number in that slot he's good to go.

So for those following along, let's do the math one more time.

That truck weighs 5,247 pounds with a GVWR of 9,200 pounds. 9,200 - 5,247 = 3,953 pounds of available load.

The trailer weighs 10,575 pounds with a GVWR of 15,950 pounds. 15,950 - 10,575 = 5,375 pounds of available load.

OP states that with his planned load out, the trailer will weigh 13,500 with a pin weight of 2,700 pounds. He is well within ratings at these numbers.

Now, if you want to break it down to tow rating by rear end gear ratio, he can tow 13,700 with 3:73, or 15,800 with 4:10. Again, his stated weight of 13,500 is beneath both of these numbers, but if he has 4:10s he's still 2,300 pounds below it's capacity.

No matter which way you do the math, his truck is safely capable of handing that load.

Do you plan on going through mountains?

Does the new trailer have electric discs on all four?

You could always run it dry until you get where you are staying. I think 1 gallon is about 8lbs.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by walker77:

If I was towing your trailer I would would get a 3/4 ton diesel. You might be able to make one of the new half ton diesels work.

You can't be serious... this has to be a misprint, trade his 2500HD in for a new 1/2 ton???

I somehow managed to misread the OP. I thought he currently had a 1/2 ton.

I would keep the current truck. It should handle the trailer just fine.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

Easy...

According to the manufacturer the Jayco has a gvwr of 16,500 pounds...

The towing capacity of a 2002 gmc 2500HD has a fifth wheel towing capacity of between 13,200 and 15,400 depending on its particular configuration...the gvwr of the HD is 9200 pounds

The gvwr of the rig could be as high as 25,700 pounds but he will be over his towing limit by at least 1100 pounds...

That's now how it works, but everything you just spelled out does indeed prove that he's OK to tow it.

You take the numbers that it can weigh and subtract the number that it does weigh. If there's a non-negative number in that slot he's good to go.

So for those following along, let's do the math one more time.

That truck weighs 5,247 pounds with a GVWR of 9,200 pounds. 9,200 - 5,247 = 3,953 pounds of available load.

The trailer weighs 10,575 pounds with a GVWR of 15,950 pounds. 15,950 - 10,575 = 5,375 pounds of available load.

OP states that with his planned load out, the trailer will weigh 13,500 with a pin weight of 2,700 pounds. He is well within ratings at these numbers.

Now, if you want to break it down to tow rating by rear end gear ratio, he can tow 13,700 with 3:73, or 15,800 with 4:10. Again, his stated weight of 13,500 is beneath both of these numbers, but if he has 4:10s he's still 2,300 pounds below it's capacity.

No matter which way you do the math, his truck is safely capable of handing that load.

Picking nits, but the specs for the extended cab short bed I saw were 13,900 with 3.73 gearing and 15,900 with the OP's 4.10 gearing and 8.1l engine.

He can stay within the truck's GCVWR by not packing the trailer solid. Keeping the tanks empty will help. His problem is the truck's GVWR which he has identified in his OP. In a subsequent post, he's posted CAT scale weights he has of his truck and additional specs on his truck. This tells me he has some knowledge and experience. I believe the unit he's looking at is the Talon 313T based on the location of the fridge and microwave vents as well not having a kitchen slide. Jayco says the pin weight is 2,310.

Based on his truck's weight, 6,760 lbs, with him, full fuel, and the hitch, he's within 9,200 lbs if he leaves his wife at home. I'd put the truck's spare tire in the toy hauler's garage along with any other tools, etc. in the truck and he'll be closer to where he should be if not under. Putting the ATVs in the garage will also lower the pin weight.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
his current vehicle is more than capable.

Bingo!

*Sorry, but someone's comfort level doesn't equate to his 2500HD not being adequite for the task.

Comfort level comes from over 1 million miles of driving a trailer. This comes from Mack Truck back in the 80's. Call it comfort or call it experience.


My current 1/2 ton is rated for 9200 lbs. Safe to tow that limit? I don't think so, I keep at least 1,000 lbs. below that and think even then it is pushing it.

quote:

My current 1/2 ton is rated for 9200 lbs. Safe to tow that limit?

Yes. That's why it's "rated". In reality ratings tend to be conservative with a safety factor built in.

Everything I use for business purposes is rated. My trucks, my trailers, my lifting equipment, slings, straps, chains, binders, etc. It doesn't matter if you're using it at 1% or 100% of its rating, it's safe to do so.

This person isn't comfortable driving at night.
This person isn't comfortable driving in the city.
This person isn't comfortable driving in the rain.
This person isn't comfortable driving in the fog.
This person isn't comfortable driving on snow.
This person isn't comfortable driving on ice.
This person isn't comfortable driving a rear wheel drive vehicle.
This person isn't comfortable driving anything other than an all wheel drive vehicle.
This person isn't comfortable driving a 4 cylinder.
This person isn't comfortable driving a 6 cylinder.
This person isn't comfortable riding a motorcycle on the freeway.
This person isn't comfortable pulling a trailer.
This person isn't comfortable pulling anything with less than two axles.

In the end, I now think we should all start walking again... awe shit, then we have to worry about our shoes not being comfortable.

Vehicle ratings are not based on the operators comfort level.

Ultimately, the OP needs to decide for themselves if they want to use said vehicle to pull the new trailer. We have shown it can be done, now it's in their hands.

Well, with all that said above, think I'll just stay home and in bed all day. But then the sheets might not be comfortable

So, in a nutshell:

Yes, I have reservations on the size of the trailer. Think that is natural with anything. Going up 8 feet and extending the tracking length is something to get used to. Just like when I went from out 25' to 31' trailer.

Yes, I have some reservations with the truck. Yes, it can pull a house and it may be even slower going up hills with the added 3,000 lbs, but the truck is designed for it. Supplementing the brakes either on the truck or trailer would be reassuring as stopping is more important than starting.

Ideally as someone mentioned above, it would be nice to take the trailer to the scales prior to buying it but that's not going to happen. Don't think the wife would like staying at home while I go have fun either

Thanks. This thread has been informative and entertaining.

This time of year, fleece sheets are the way to go...

And staying inside is also recommended with this lovely weather which just arrived (-8 now).

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:
This person isn't comfortable driving at night.
This person isn't comfortable driving in the city.
This person isn't comfortable driving in the rain.
This person isn't comfortable driving in the fog.
This person isn't comfortable driving on snow.
This person isn't comfortable driving on ice.
This person isn't comfortable driving a rear wheel drive vehicle.
This person isn't comfortable driving anything other than an all wheel drive vehicle.
This person isn't comfortable driving a 4 cylinder.
This person isn't comfortable driving a 6 cylinder.
This person isn't comfortable riding a motorcycle on the freeway.
This person isn't comfortable pulling a trailer.
This person isn't comfortable pulling anything with less than two axles.

In the end, I now think we should all start walking again... awe shit, then we have to worry about our shoes not being comfortable.

Vehicle ratings are not based on the operators comfort level.

Ultimately, the OP needs to decide for themselves if they want to use said vehicle to pull the new trailer. We have shown it can be done, now it's in their hands.

Vehicle towing ratings are based on weight. The TYPE of load you are towing has A LOT to do with it. It will state in the owners manual right under the weight ratings a disclamer for that. Vehicle ratings are NOT based on windage which is a very important aspect of towing. In certain situations (strong wind, ice, snow) that 40' trailer is NOT the same as towing a 16' car trailer with Elvis' Cadillac on it. That is A LOT of tail wagging the dog. Feel AND judgement has a lot to do with this based on experience. Personally I wouldn't do it. I've driven a lot of stuff, towed a lot of stuff. My father had a hi-cube van with a 16' long box, cross winds would push that all around and it had dual rear wheels and WAS the vehicle. 40' of 13' tall square box behind a pickup truck with only 2 rear tires on the ground that are 265 mm wide on the pavement in a 30-40mph crosswind, no thanks. It will never be comfortable towing that, you will always think of the what if's. Can you get away with it in ideal weather and ideal traffic, and relatively flat roads, sure. But you can't always count on that. It's one thing if you tow it once in a while 20 miles on roads you know to be easy and in good weather. It's a totally different story towing across states where you encounter varying weather and traffic.

I've also driven a jerrdan flatbed with a car on the bed and one on the hook at GVWR, towed long boats on trailers right there as well, and a car trailer with a car on it behind an F150. Towing right at the limit is NEVER fun and NEVER comfortable and the margin of error is very slim. If some jerkwater cuts in front of you and slams on the brakes to make an exit on the highway, it can become a nasty situation. Stopping is one thing, having the trailer come around on you or steering the tow vehicle is the other thing.

My cowboy days are over.

quote:

Originally posted by ugeesta:
Well, with all that said above, think I'll just stay home and in bed all day. But then the sheets might not be comfortable

So, in a nutshell:

Yes, I have reservations on the size of the trailer. Think that is natural with anything. Going up 8 feet and extending the tracking length is something to get used to. Just like when I went from out 25' to 31' trailer.

Yes, I have some reservations with the truck. Yes, it can pull a house and it may be even slower going up hills with the added 3,000 lbs, but the truck is designed for it. Supplementing the brakes either on the truck or trailer would be reassuring as stopping is more important than starting.

Ideally as someone mentioned above, it would be nice to take the trailer to the scales prior to buying it but that's not going to happen. Don't think the wife would like staying at home while I go have fun either

Thanks. This thread has been informative and entertaining.

Definitely make sure the brakes on the trailer are good to go. Last labor day we were pulling my dads 25ft Airstream with our 03 F150 (has 95k on the odo) the brakes went out on the truck while coming down an off ramp. I was able to reach down and only use the brakes on the trailer to stop us.

We found out later that the metal line going to the rear brakes had been rubbing on the frame all these years and finally broke (dealer claimed it was common on older trucks) and lost all pressure. I'm thankful it happened while pulling the trailer. We wouldn't had the extra brakes to stop us otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
Words.

Towed everything under the sun including Space Shuttle from the second seat.

More words.

Your truck is too small.

And there you have it.

My grossly overloaded bone stock SRW with 39' 5th wheel:


I wonder what they'll give me on trade for one of these:


It's prime camping season here in Florida:

quote:

Your truck is too small.

What size truck does he need? A 450 or 550? Because his 2500 is the same size as a 3500. Going to a dually 3500 gives you 2 extra wheels on a truck that's the same size.

Is this what he needs?

Sounds like he (U) is coming to his sense's

The reason I mentioned the dually right off the get go is the extra lateral stability and wider foot print it gives in towing something like this trailer. The whip affect (tail wagging the dog) can occur due to a variety of situations. Having more truck, weight, width etc. makes towing much safer and yes piece of mind is different for different people but it a real thing.
The argument is not whether his truck is rated to be able to move this trailer.

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
Sounds like he (U) is coming to his sense's

The reason I mentioned the dually right off the get go is the extra lateral stability and wider foot print it gives in towing something like this trailer. The whip affect (tail wagging the dog) can occur due to a variety of situations. Having more truck, weight, width etc. makes towing much safer and yes piece of mind is different for different people but it a real thing.
The argument is not whether his truck is rated to be able to move this trailer.

+1. Plus the added safety if you have a blowout on one of the rear truck tires. A dually really is the way to go in this situation.

TRAPPER- I drove all of the vehicles mentioned. Growing up my father had an automotive body shop and mechanics shop and used to restore corvettes. I worked for him since I was 11 years old.....taping/sanding vehicles and prepping them for paint, also doing some light mechanical work. He had a 1991 Jerr-dan ford flatbed with 6.9 international (powerstroke). I towed 2 cars at a time from the auction with it, and it was borderline in power and GVWR if you had 2 full size cars. I also bought 2 small used car lots at the time or a little later while he still did his businesses and would use his flatbed to bring the cars back from the auctions I'd go to, to buy cars. He also owned a Ford Hi-Cube with 16' box that I used to drive to the car shows where we would have a few spaces and sell and buy parts. He'd usually drive the F150 with a corvette on the trailer he brought to the show to sell. Most were 4-6 hours away. I also trailered my 3400lb 1993 mustang cobra on a steel 16' car trailer behind a F150 to various Fun Ford Weekend events where I raced Street Renegade with it. I also towed many boats on trailers as my dad's buddy did warranty repairs for Hydra Sports back then and the plant was 4-5 hours from his shop. Largest boat I personally towed was a 33' Hydrasport with 3-250hp Yamaha's on a triple axle trailer. Very heavy but much lower center of gravity and much less windage than your travel trailer. I certainly wouldn't tow a 40' travel trailer behind anything less than a dually. I've also driven a tractor trailer....but just bob tail (just the tractor) and local, as my dad would paint some of them when I was in High school and later. Sure, you can get away with it......that is until the 1 day you don't. You're also towing in SWFL where the roads are good, straight, and FLAT.

And, then I got into the yachting industry in my mid 20's. I guess it's just a little too hard to believe that someone is a go-getter and has always been a self starter and self employed. It's really not hard to fathom that someone switches over from automotive to yacht as a lot of the skills transfer over. Do you think checking the oil on your diesel F250 is any different than checking the oil on a $500k 1900HP C32 cat? Or changing fuel filters? And, the yachting industry stuck.

What's with all of the personal attacks? Is it jealousy? Stupidity? Near sightedness that someone can't do many different things in their life?

quote:

Plus the added safety if you have a blowout on one of the rear truck tires. A dually really is the way to go in this situation.

So why are all of these big trucks making the move from duals to singles on the big rigs?

My truck has been perfectly stable with everything I've put behind it. We have two other members towing the same or larger. They don't seem to be having any issues.

It appears that the only people who have issues doing this type of towing are those who have never done it.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:
This person isn't comfortable driving at night.
This person isn't comfortable driving in the city.
This person isn't comfortable driving in the rain.
This person isn't comfortable driving in the fog.
This person isn't comfortable driving on snow.
This person isn't comfortable driving on ice.
This person isn't comfortable driving a rear wheel drive vehicle.
This person isn't comfortable driving anything other than an all wheel drive vehicle.
This person isn't comfortable driving a 4 cylinder.
This person isn't comfortable driving a 6 cylinder.
This person isn't comfortable riding a motorcycle on the freeway.
This person isn't comfortable pulling a trailer.
This person isn't comfortable pulling anything with less than two axles.

In the end, I now think we should all start walking again... awe shit, then we have to worry about our shoes not being comfortable.

Vehicle ratings are not based on the operators comfort level.

Ultimately, the OP needs to decide for themselves if they want to use said vehicle to pull the new trailer. We have shown it can be done, now it's in their hands.

Why the sarcasm?

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

Plus the added safety if you have a blowout on one of the rear truck tires. A dually really is the way to go in this situation.

So why are all of these big trucks making the move from duals to singles on the big rigs?

My truck has been perfectly stable with everything I've put behind it. We have two other members towing the same or larger. They don't seem to be having any issues.

It appears that the only people who have issues doing this type of towing are those who have never done it.

You're comparing apples to oranges. The big trucks that have single axles still have 4 tires per axle, are local ONLY so the rig is shorter, and carry a much lighter load and usually shorter trailer 35' instead of 45'......companies like Sysco, Coca Cola use these to deliver to restaurants in cities as they have a lot tighter turning radius. They do NOT run these OTR.

Sure, they won't have any issues.....Until the 1 day they have an issue. AND, it will be a big one. Have a blow out on the rear axle of the tow vehicle, or one on the trailer, and you'll see the shoddily built box of an rv in 500 pieces on the side of the highway. Same situation with a dually, and your chances of simply stopping the rig and pulling over and changing a tire with no accident are much much higher.......the question is, how much risk do you want to assume.

quote:

The big trucks that have single axles still have 4 tires per axle

Nope. They are getting rid of those and going to two tires per axle.

quote:

are local ONLY so the rig is shorter, and carry a much lighter load and usually shorter trailer 35' instead of 45'......companies like Sysco, Coca Cola use these to deliver to restaurants in cities as they have a lot tighter turning radius. They do NOT run these OTR.

Nope. Over the road, tandem axle trucks pulling 53 foot trailers. I see them on the trailers too.

quote:

how much risk do you want to assume.

I'd say the risks are pretty low seeing there are three of us here in this very thread using these trucks to tow these weights with zero issues.

I do agree with you on tires. I run very expensive commercial tires on my truck that are rated beyond what we use it for.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

The big trucks that have single axles still have 4 tires per axle

Nope. They are getting rid of those and going to two tires per axle.

quote:

are local ONLY so the rig is shorter, and carry a much lighter load and usually shorter trailer 35' instead of 45'......companies like Sysco, Coca Cola use these to deliver to restaurants in cities as they have a lot tighter turning radius. They do NOT run these OTR.

Nope. Over the road, tandem axle trucks pulling 53 foot trailers.

quote:

how much risk do you want to assume.

I'd say the risks are pretty low seeing there are three of us here in this very thread using these trucks to tow these weights with zero issues.

I do agree with you on tires. I run very expensive commercial tires on my truck that are rated beyond what we use it for.

If they're running tandem axle OTR trucks with single tires instead of dual and 53' trailer. It's because they are carrying a much lighter load. Styrofoam and things like that, that take up an entire semi trailer but aren't heavy and dense such as wheat. The single tire tandem axle, severly effects a tractor trailers overall load carrying capacity/rating.