I know this belongs on the RV.net forum, but what the hell.

Was a fool and went to the RV show. Originally told the wife that we were not buying a new trailer. Then we saw it: Th new Jayco Talon toy hauler. Simple in side with a slide and a garage. Mama has been wanting a garage for some time as out first two trailers did not have one.

The current trailer is feeling a bit cramped; maybe cause we are getting older and fatter. The bedroom ceiling is low and so this new trailer had a lot of positives and at a reasonable price.

My concern is I don't want to buy a new truck to pull this thing. The combined weight is below the trucks capacity and the rear axle rating is below it's capacity but the gross vehicle weight is over by about 700 lbs (estimated) 9,900lbs vs. 9,200 lbs.

If we get this trailer, I would likely have to upgrade the front brakes of the truck to a 4 piston brake. Maybe even add air bags to the rear axle to reduce squat. Just would hate to find out I need a new truck after getting the new trailer.

What to do...... Stay away because it's too much trailer or say *uck it, you ain't getting any younger and enjoy it.

The current trailer:
2011 Puma Unleashed 298FQU
Length 31'
Total Weight: 10,400 loaded up with all our junk
Pin Weight 2,300lbs
Pros: Paid for, easy to maneuver, pulls straight
Cons: No Slide, 96" wide No Garage, have to rotate one ATV 90 degrees to fit in trailer.



Proposed new toy:
Length: 40'
Total weight estimate: 13,500 with all our junk
Estimated Pin Weight: 2,700lbs
Pros: Living Slide, Garage, 102" Wide, can park ATV's side by side inside.
Cons: Heavier, wider, taller and longer. Loss of camping spots due to size.



Truck
2002 GMC 2500HD
75,000 miles, 8.1l Vortec with 5 speed allison transmission
Rear Tire load rating 6,080lbs


The Toys
2009 Honda Rancher AT
2016 Yamaha Grizzly

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ugeesta,

Pending a decision on the necessity/cost of upgrading the truck, I'm in the effit go for it camp.

Not getting any younger and you can't take it with you.

I would go with a bigger truck. Not a good idea to run it at max weight specs.
Best to have a little margin for extra camping stuff.

That truck should be perfectly fine with that trailer. I have a 3500 single rear wheel with the Allison/8.1. It's not uncommon for me to have 16,000 pounds behind it.

I'm showing the curb weight of your truck at roughly 5,300 pound empty, with a rear curb weight of 2,300 pounds and a rear axle rating of 6,000 pounds.

Not counting other cargo, your new pin weight pushes your vehicle weight to 7,950ish, with 5,000 pounds on your rear axle. You're still well within the numbers.

Just a couple of points.

It's not only the weight of the taller that you will be towing/stopping but also everything that you put in it. All the stuff really adds up. Grill, food, clothes, people in the truck, your quads, dishes...... You can easily add 1,500 to 2,000 lbs in weight that you will be towing.

If you are already over weight with the just the dry weight of the camper, you will be way over weight by the time you load it up.

Also keep in mind that camper manufactures like to list the weight of the camper as small as possible, and truck manufactures like to be very generous with what they say a truck will tow.

If you try to make you truck tow something that it isn't rated to do you will wear your truck out, and (more importantly) be very unsafe driving down the road and trying to stop.

Hope this helps

How often do you go camping and what is the drive to get there like?

I've never owned a camper but I vote go for the Toyhauler. Try it with your truck, if it's inadequate just find a used heavier duty truck, there are used 3500's out there, it shouldn't cost that much to upgrade the truck should it?

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
That truck should be perfectly fine with that trailer. I have a 3500 single rear wheel with the Allison/8.1. It's not uncommon for me to have 16,000 pounds behind it.

I'm showing the curb weight of your truck at roughly 5,300 pound empty, with a rear curb weight of 2,300 pounds and a rear axle rating of 6,000 pounds.

Not counting other cargo, your new pin weight pushes your vehicle weight to 7,950ish, with 5,000 pounds on your rear axle. You're still well within the numbers.

Getting the weight moving usually is not the problem. Getting the weight stopped usually is the problem. Brakes/suspension. Depending on the area he could be fine with the little bit over, or not if he's in really big mountains. Also depends on traffic etc. In most cases 700 lbs over should not be a problem. However you're relying on a 16 year old truck to stop it. The new trucks definitely have much better/beefier brakes,

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
That truck should be perfectly fine with that trailer. I have a 3500 single rear wheel with the Allison/8.1. It's not uncommon for me to have 16,000 pounds behind it.

I'm showing the curb weight of your truck at roughly 5,300 pound empty, with a rear curb weight of 2,300 pounds and a rear axle rating of 6,000 pounds.

Not counting other cargo, your new pin weight pushes your vehicle weight to 7,950ish, with 5,000 pounds on your rear axle. You're still well within the numbers.

One thing I forgot to consider is elevation and temperature. running the flat lands would ok, out here in AZ that truck would be working hard.
http://www.netstate.com/states...apcom/az_mapscom.htm

Re: the camper, I say go for it. Seems like you'll be able to do more, and more comfortably.

Re: the truck. We have that same truck, a couple years newer, with the Duramax. But we only use it for a 2-horse trailer. I have always been of the opinion that it's better to have more truck than you need, than to be skirting the edges of capability. I say you should get a new truck and not have to worry about being safe.

Ugeesta,
FYI - (side note)my state park has put in all new paved roads & leveled & paved lots & laundry.
We're in the process of completing a new dam as well !

Just remember you'd mentioned staying there a long time ago.


*Shameless plug for a local spot!






If you're not going thru any mountains you'll be fine.
Same set up (different make & model toyhauler) my friend had.
He spent most of his time in NC.
Traveling from Ohio thru the mountains on 77 thru WV & Va forced him to go 1 ton.



.

I wouldn't be so concerned about the small weight difference but the height difference.
That will be a constant drain on the pulling power, not just starting and stopping. Also the mileage will go down a good bit.

^^^ Yup, that was the first place we pulled the trailer. Our spot was behind the excavator in the upper left picture.

The height of the nose is concerning. The new trailer is 13' tall while our existing trailer is 12 feet tall. The nose is tapered to improve the aerodynamics. Don't think I can get worse gas mileage as the truck already ranges between 6.5 and 7.5 mpg pulling.

Definitely would upgrade the front brakes and thinking of doing that anyway. Stopping is critical and I can definitely feel the 10,400lbs behind me towing already.

the unloaded weight of the new trailer is around 11,000 lbs. the junk we add is around 2,500lbs with the two quads.

the truck rear axle weight with the 5'vr hitch came in at 2,880 when I put it on the Cat scale a while back. Add the wife and travel stuff, should have a combined rear axle weight of 5,700 lbs. Under the 6080lb axle rating.

We travel the southern hills of Ohio and Western Pennsylvania and have been the the Hatfield McCoy trails in West Virginia a couple times so we do travel the small hills of the East.

You are going to want a dually pickup without a doubt. A waaaaaayy better platform to haul something like that. Give you a lot safer rig to tow and stop a beast of a trailer as such.

If momma wants it and you can afford it (including dually truck), not afford payments. Then go for it. Remember, it is going to sit (at your home) most of the time.
Th at is a hell of a investment(expense) though.

My vote is no. Mainly for my own financial situation. I could never justify buying a rig like that myself. Not that it wouldn't be a hoot to have a set up like that.

Since you are asking here I am guessing you have some reservations about doing it.

Here’s a little thought that just hit me.

What happens if you do have an accident. It doesn’t matter who’s fault it is, but the other party retains a sharp attorney who figures out that you were over weight for your 16 year old truck.

What is your risk or potential liability?

Maybe I’m way off with my thinking but these are the things that have me awake at 3 in the morning.

I've been towing different RV trailers since I have been married 25 years ago. IMO your truck will tow the trailer, but it will not be safe. You are overweight from the start, as others said to consider the weight of people, cargo, water, and even a full tank of gas. I find that even 1,000 pounds below gvw combo is sometimes a tough haul. Currently I tow a regular 31' RV, but before this had a fifth wheel towed with a diesel.
My truck just makes the tow on the 31' I have, and like you I went to an RV show for something to do and ended buying the trailer against the suggestion of my wife not to buy it. Too much trailer for the truck. I'll go on a 500 mile trip but after that it takes a toll on driving all day and the next day. I would love to go to Disney with it but I'm not going to drive 1100 miles, just too much for the truck. If you had a dually, I would say go for it.

quote:

Originally posted by mcrimm:
Here’s a little thought that just hit me.

What happens if you do have an accident. It doesn’t matter who’s fault it is, but the other party retains a sharp attorney who figures out that you were over weight for your 16 year old truck.

What is your risk or potential liability?

Maybe I’m way off with my thinking but these are the things that have me awake at 3 in the morning.

I agree with this about liability.
In addition, you will be way overloaded when you add all your personal items to the truck and trailer and the off road stuff you plan to haul.
At 13' height you will also be vulnerable to bridges in many east coast areas.
All that extra weight will not fair well with your old truck.
If you want that trailer I advise a BIG truck to pull it.

I'm going to throw this in here for your use:

1. What is the Gross COMBINED Vehicle Weight Rating of your truck (GCVWR)? This is a weight rating that you may not LEGALLY exceed (Your choice!). You may have to do an internet search to find the rating. It is the total weight of your truck (loaded with fuel and passengers and other stuff in the truck) and trailer (loaded with everything).

2. After market and other add-on parts DO NOT increase the stated vehicle weight rating. Nothing you do will legally alter the weight rating.

My wife and I departed our home to be full time RVers. We had a new 2001 Chevy 3500 Dually with the 8.1 liter (494 manly cubic inches) and Alison auto. We were towing a new 2000 Avion 38 foot 5th wheel. In 2004 we upgraded our truck to an International 4700 LoPro with tow body as I was not happy with the hill climbing ability of the Chevy. In 2006 we replaced our 5th wheel with a 2006 5th wheel with a gross weight of 20K. I was very happy I had replaced the truck!

Keep in mind, you will be towing a 102" wide 5th wheel on a single rear wheel truck. Stability may be an issue.

Thread drift: I met an older gentleman who had installed an entire wood working shop in his "garage" in his 5th wheel. Lathe, band saw, table saw, scroll saw and drill press. I was very impressed with his set up.

0 yes
X no

I wouldn't want to tow that with anything less than a one ton dually.