Please don't.

One, that poster just told us they have little to no experience with guns, manufacturing, or mechanics. Two, if they put white gas in a hot performance car, would they demand it give factory 1/4 mile times at the strip?

Yet some gun owners demand it. I've been posting for over 20 years on the webz, it's getting more frequent every day. NO, your commodity mass produced firearm that was searched the world over for a cheap price isn't going to perform well stuffing low powered white box ammo when the factory designed it for performance self defense loads.

The funny part is very few carry cheap import round nose for self defense, but get apoplectic it won't rack the slide and lock back as needed at the range. Too bad this post won't get to those who will post their sad experience in the future.

Guns are made to shoot specific power levels, in fact some makers describe what to use by brand and product description, and will not warranty any other ammo use. That's considered outrageous when mentioned - but it's military policy, too. A soldier is handed the ammo to shoot and it's even against regs to bring your own. Not happening. You will shoot what you are given, and like it. That experienced combat shooter is never questioned over it, but celebrated, however, insist that is there is better ammo Joe Poster should use and nooooooo, it's a insult to their masculinity. They know BETTER than anyone else.

"And manufacturers who cant get their guns to fire cheap substandard ammo from the first round make garbage!" Sorry, force of will does not alter physics, nor does it enhance physique, either.

Anyone who complains about range fodder causing issues might simply be uninformed - we were all first time gun owners and shooters. But demanding otherwise with the evidence in hand - a stovepipe or failure to lock back? An explanation of what critical thinking skills is needed. And we all sometimes need a refresher, too.

There are 16 million new to guns owners, half are women, none are experienced and we need to patiently explain that expectations not rooted in fact and experience aren't always valid.

I get what you're saying here.
I've always tried to buy quality ammunition including SD ammunition. I have bought some cheap crap though too when supply was down. I shot it and kept my good stuff for another time.
The Glock ate it like it eats most stuff. I've had a few pistols that didn't like certain types of ammunition both range and SD. Never thought they were defective. Early Sig 938 didn't like Winchester White box but shot Blazer Brass like a champ. Handled hollow points great. RIA 1911 wouldn't feed hollow points but any FMJ round was fine. No problem, I just didn't carry that pistol.
New shooters can get discouraged real quick if something like this happens and think their new pistol is defective. Hopefully they have someone with a bit of experience helping them.

I love cheap ammo. It’s my favorite brand.

My experience is that I won’t hold it against cheap ammo not working in a brand new gun. Once it’s been “seasoned” though I expect and have experienced that cheap ammo works fine in everything I own. Tula is my jam.

There are lower priced brands that perform well. I buy these brands when their posted muzzle velocity is at or near that of defensive ammo. Generally, 9mm stuff at 1150 fps works well. Geco, S&B and Fiocchi tend to be in these ranges and work well. I do have a case of WWB for use in a pistol that recommends it, but use it only in that gun. In short, buy based on performance rather than price, but you can do both. I've excluded subsonic stuff as it has a whole other purpose.

I'll have to disagree a bit. A well designed defensive gun should run reliably with any sammi-spec ammunition. The reason that many defensive handguns like Glocks or Sigs got their reputation for reliability is that they are built to tolerances that are intentionally open enough to accommodate some minor variances in ammo performance, as well as a wide variety of non-ammo-related operating conditions. I've put anything from 90gr frangible all the way up through 147gr 9mm through my Sigs, Glock, and Berettas with no issues. Even steel case Monarch and Tula on occasion, thousands of reloads, and thousands of rounds of WWB as that used to be my go-to before I started reloading. They all worked, with the exception of some clearly defective rounds. It's a defensive handgun...it has to work under all conditions, and if the tolerances were so restrictive that it choked over a little variance in ammo, I wouldn't trust it.

Now if we're talking a high performance target pistol like an S&W 52, or custom 1911, etc., then that's a completely different matter. Those guns are designed to operate at the ragged edge of performance within very specific tolerances, to achieve maximum precision. They need greater specificity and uniformity in ammo to function reliably, but the result is smoother operation and greater accuracy than your run of the mill duty-type handgun.

For a defensive handgun, though, I expect it to be able to function reliably with pretty much any factory ammo that I choose to feed through it.

We’ve heard the adage, something works for one guy, the next ends up with problems. There can be a devil hiding in the details.

A few years ago I come home, the son says his friend’s Sig 320 is ‘locked up’, cartridge stuck in the chamber, asks me to look into it.

I unstick the action, get the round out. The gun is dryer than the proverbial popcorn fart. On top of that, he’s shooting steel case ammo, abrasive dry case. The gun never got an ounce of care(or oil) since new. I guess one could label the gun ‘defective’.

I disassembled, lubed, then reported my findings. I included a few blurbs on gun care, no problems since.

It’s like the relative to whom I gave a new Zeiss scope for an elk hunt. He mounted it & said the scope was ‘defective’, ran out of adjustments getting it zero’d. I said I’d like to look into it.

As expected, the scope was fine, his mounting system was askew.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
I'll have to disagree a bit. A well designed defensive gun should run reliably with any sammi-spec ammunition.

Bingo -- after edits. Every one of my semi-auto handguns and rifles has cycled without fail, after 100-ish rounds were shot through the gun, with any type of ammo. Including white box ammo. Semi-custom 1911s, Sig X5s, match-grade AR15s.

In my experience, the one exception was Sig 300 blackout 125 match ammo, which popped primers like Orville Redenbacher in a microwave. Near the top of my list for shit ammo.

I was our department's RO for years. Used WWB Value packs for all our practices, zero problems. .22's are notorious for being ammo sensitive. .22 ammo usually shoots pretty dirty, the cases aren't always uniform, and the ignition system isn't as reliable as center fires.

I've got one 1911 that doesn't like cheap steel case Russian shit, otherwise it will run in everything else I've tried it in when I can't get anything better. It is not what I choose to run on a consistent basis though.

Oil/grease all firearms according to what they need.
Brass in everything except Ak’s which get nothing but steel.
Zero issues outside of a defective firearm that needs to be fixed at the factory in 30 years.

I view decent ammo like decent gasoline for my vehicles. Put cheap crap in expect some cheap results. I have used aluminum cases in the past. I do not like cleaning up after it. I tend to be anal retentive about cleaning so I’m equally anal about buying quality ammunition. I’ll never understand buying a pricey firearm and shooting shit ammo afterwards.

Well for one thing a pricey gun isn’t harmed by cheap ammo. Internet lore will say otherwise but nobody has a bunch of “yea I broke another extractor” stories because it’s just that, lore.

Cheap ammo for range use and even matches is an easy way to save money.

If it performed in some marked way better than I wouldn’t disagree. It doesn’t though. I shoot case after case of Tula through every 9 I own. The only issue I ever had was Tula hates Magpul Glock mags. That’s it. It shoots perfectly fine through Legions, Glocks, Shadow 2’s, Berettas, etc.

Saving money on range ammo just seems smart. And I’ve never experienced any breakage or even unusual wear. I used to reload (Dillon Square Deal) I stopped though because I could buy steel cased ammo so cheap it wasn’t really worth my time to reload. Now it makes more sense again. lol

I don't mind shooting cheap ammo as long as it doesn't smell like a Russian Whores panties.
(most of the cellulose used in wolf ammo is from discarded clothes)

but as for guns.... I have a rule in life as of late.

I don't skimp on: food, alcohol, tools, cigars or guns. You get what you pay for.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Well for one thing a pricey gun isn’t harmed by cheap ammo. Internet lore will say otherwise but nobody has a bunch of “yea I broke another extractor” stories because it’s just that, lore.

Cheap ammo for range use and even matches is an easy way to save money.

If it performed in some marked way better than I wouldn’t disagree. It doesn’t though. I shoot case after case of Tula through every 9 I own. The only issue I ever had was Tula hates Magpul Glock mags. That’s it. It shoots perfectly fine through Legions, Glocks, Shadow 2’s, Berettas, etc.

Saving money on range ammo just seems smart. And I’ve never experienced any breakage or even unusual wear. I used to reload (Dillon Square Deal) I stopped though because I could buy steel cased ammo so cheap it wasn’t really worth my time to reload. Now it makes more sense again. lol

Instead of doing all that I just buy it when it's cheap and stack deep. Most all of my 9mm practice ammo was $190 shipped for 1000 rounds. Brass, 124gr or 147gr. Then when I shoot, I catch all the brass and save it. Much the same for 556 but obviously much more expensive than handgun ammunition.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
I'll have to disagree a bit. A well designed defensive gun should run reliably with any sammi-spec ammunition. The reason that many defensive handguns like Glocks or Sigs got their reputation for reliability is that they are built to tolerances that are intentionally open enough to accommodate some minor variances in ammo performance, as well as a wide variety of non-ammo-related operating conditions. I've put anything from 90gr frangible all the way up through 147gr 9mm through my Sigs, Glock, and Berettas with no issues. Even steel case Monarch and Tula on occasion, thousands of reloads, and thousands of rounds of WWB as that used to be my go-to before I started reloading. They all worked, with the exception of some clearly defective rounds. It's a defensive handgun...it has to work under all conditions, and if the tolerances were so restrictive that it choked over a little variance in ammo, I wouldn't trust it.

Now if we're talking a high performance target pistol like an S&W 52, or custom 1911, etc., then that's a completely different matter. Those guns are designed to operate at the ragged edge of performance within very specific tolerances, to achieve maximum precision. They need greater specificity and uniformity in ammo to function reliably, but the result is smoother operation and greater accuracy than your run of the mill duty-type handgun.

For a defensive handgun, though, I expect it to be able to function reliably with pretty much any factory ammo that I choose to feed through it.

Agreed. A well designed and made firearm should handle any ammo within SAAMI specs for dimension, and of reasonable loadings.

Now, I've had guns that would fire some cheap ammo, but not others. I have a 9mm 1911 that won't shoot Winchester White Box at all, but has operated fine with all sorts of commie steel ammo, and other brass cased, but cheap ammo. It is easy to avoid White Box, but if it was fussy over many more brands, I'd be looking for a gun problem.

But any decently made gun should handle any in-spec ammo.

I own a bunch of different guns and I've never had a problem with any of them shooting any ammo I had on hand.

^^^^^^^^^^
Except for 22 caliber. CCI was fine, the rest were variable depending on the lot number

quote:

Originally posted by sourdough44:
We’ve heard the adage, something works for one guy, the next ends up with problems. There can be a devil hiding in the details.

A few years ago I come home, the son says his friend’s Sig 320 is ‘locked up’, cartridge stuck in the chamber, asks me to look into it.

I unstick the action, get the round out. The gun is dryer than the proverbial popcorn fart. On top of that, he’s shooting steel case ammo, abrasive dry case. The gun never got an ounce of care(or oil) since new. I guess one could label the gun ‘defective’.

I disassembled, lubed, then reported my findings. I included a few blurbs on gun care, no problems since.

It’s like the relative to whom I gave a new Zeiss scope for an elk hunt. He mounted it & said the scope was ‘defective’, ran out of adjustments getting it zero’d. I said I’d like to look into it.

As expected, the scope was fine, his mounting system was askew.

I had two similar experiences. Brother in law buys a CZ P-07. Welcome to the club, says I, I've got a P-09 that I adore. First time he takes it out, he jams constantly. I ask the standard questions: did you clean, did you lube? Turns out he did neither. I grabbed a bottle of oil from my bag, tore the gun down, and lubed all of the wear surfaces. Zero issues for the rest of the day, and I get to tease him about firearms maintenance.

Second time, it was his older half brother. He was trying to figure out why his new (cheap) shotgun kept locking up every other round. Turns out he neither cleaned nor lubed anything before showing up to shoot. I grabbed a can of spray lube, spritzed some in the action and receiver, and put a full mag of 00 buckshot down range before handing it back to him. It did lock up two more shots later, but the fact remains that it went 6 rounds without jamming after lubrication, which was the longest string anyone got from it all day.

Well once again details do matter. I don’t care how cheap and how deep you stack your anmo. Whatever brass is going for steel cased stuff is ALWAYS cheaper by a lot. 190 huh, like I said, right before this crazy you could get steel cased 9 to your door at 123 a case. I didn’t even shop around. That’s 67 bucks cheaper for ammo I’m shooting for practice at a range.

By anybodies math you were getting an extra case every 2 cases. Your “stack” would have been a third bigger.

The other point is if it doesn’t work in your particular gun then don’t use it. Problem is, I have a pretty wide assortment of guns and other than the above story about mags they all chew through the steel cased stuff without complaint.

My pint has always been don’t shoot steel cased if it gives you problems. The internet will tell you that it hurts your guns. “Cheap gas in my fancy Porsche” nonsense. That lucky gunner burn up a 5.56 barrel experiment comes to mind. In pistols, steel cased ammo hasn’t been shown to damage anything. In most guns it’s 100% reliable. It’s been shot to the tune of bazillions. The data is out there.

If you want to spend more on range ammo because it makes for better “feels”. Go for it. Just know you aren’t actually saving your gun from anything. At all. You just are spending more money. It’s your money though.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Well once again details do matter. I don’t care how cheap and how deep you stack your anmo. Whatever brass is going for steel cased stuff is ALWAYS cheaper by a lot. 190 huh, like I said, right before this crazy you could get steel cased 9 to your door at 123 a case. I didn’t even shop around. That’s 67 bucks cheaper for ammo I’m shooting for practice at a range.

You really need to calm down before you have a damn heart attack for one. Two, what other people do, why does that bother you so much? it's not your money, and not your guns. I shouldn't have to explain to you how I save all my brass, give it someone who has 3 Dillons and reloads it for me. Nor how much $ that saves me. I shouldn't have to explain all that to you or anyone else nor post ze maths that don't match what you said. You reloading steel based ammo? I doubt it. I sure as hell am having my brass reloaded. Instead you jump on here with like minded "members" and just want to pick a fight.

I'll agree up to the point of not immediately blaming the gun if it doesn't run well with crappy ammo, but a good gun should run with just about anything.