Their rule should have a provision for a variance due to economic hardship. In North Florida water use is monitored by having the electric companies report on/off times to the water district at no cost to the person withdrawing water. Water district staff do a one-time flow measurement and the use is calculated using the GPM and run time.

quote:

Originally posted by SapperSteel:

quote:

Originally posted by rtquig:
I guess the better question would be is: Where does the water come from, upstream or underground and forming a river on your property. If it doesn't originate on your property, how can you own the water?

I'm tempted to respond by asking "How can you own the land?" But then you'd likely point out that nobody really owns their land, we just rent it from the state and if you don't believe that then try not paying your property taxes.

The water comes from upstream. It's open channel flow, and all three of my diversion points are on my property. So, OK. You got me. I said it wrong.

I don't own the water, what I own is the right to use the water -- the water right. I got that right when I bought my mother's and my grandmother's estates. The original right comes from my great-great-grandfather, who filed for it in 1882, just 19 years after Abe Lincoln created the Idaho Territorial Government, and eleven years before Idaho became a state.

Using diesel-powered and electric-powered pumps, I suck what I have a right to out of the "river" -- the Marsh Creek -- and use it to irrigate and to water stock. That portion of the water that isn't absorbed into the soil runs off back into the creek as "recharge water" to flow on downstream to the next downstream user's diversion point.

The new water district isn't charging me to exercise my right to the water. Instead, it is charging me to pay for the guy who monitors my use of the water and the gal who bills me for money to pay that guy and to pay herself. There's a difference.

Thank you, much clearer on your stance. I understand where your coming from. I worked for a municipal water utility for 12 years. We were at the states mercy any time they raised the user permits that got renewed every year. We has a large customer base so it hardly reflected in the water rates. In your case you have to foot the bills. That sucks.

That sucks. I'd be pissed, too. And I agree... want to measure it, fine, but don't make me pay for it. That's ridiculous.

I'm curious, though, how do you (or anyone) know this without the measuring devices:

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I'm not taking, have NEVER taken, more water than I have a right to.

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Originally posted by 46and2:
That sucks. I'd be pissed, too. And I agree... want to measure it, fine, but don't make me pay for it. That's ridiculous.

I'm curious, though, how do you (or anyone) know this without the measuring devices:

quote:

I'm not taking, have NEVER taken, more water than I have a right to.

It's pretty easy, 46and2.

I use sprinkler pipe. There are charts and graphs that show flow rate at a range of operating pressures for sprinkler nozzle sizes in 1/64" diameter increments ranging from 1/8" to 3/16" diameter. All I have to do to know what my flow rate is is count how many heads I have operating and multiply by the applicable flow rate. This costs me NOTHING (the pertinent data is free on the internet, as well as in book/chart form from the folks that manufacture and sell pumps and pipe).

The pipe have a lot of advantages over old-school flood irrigation. Among these are no "shrink", which is the loss of water by absorption into the ground and evaporation into the air as it flows down a ditch, as well as the ability to more evenly distribute the water over the acreage being serviced -- the combination of these two advantages allows me to cover more acreage with less water than my great-grandfather ever imagined. The sprinkler pipes' only disadvantages are these three: finding labor to move them, the significant capital investment it takes to buy them and the pumps that drive them, and, of course, the ever-escalating cost of fuel & electricity to run the pumps.

It's a little harder for the open channel flow users, the guys who flood irrigate, to be sure they're not exceeding their water right. They have to build a weir at their diversion point, and for a weir to work there has to be some fall at its location. A typical lumber weir might cost around a hundred bucks to build and install in a ditch. Creating the fall can be tough, though, if the surrounding ground is very level and you can't also create a pond.

But counting sprinkler heads and installing weirs are not good enough for the Idaho Department of Water Resources (IDWR). They demand a computerized measuring device that reports instantaneous flow and records total volume over time. The approved models run about $3.5K each.

I understand how you feel. Starting in December, I have to buy a $1,000 piece of hardware and then subscribe to a service for ~$20/month for each of my semi trucks, simply so the government can automatically monitor the hours of service. They no longer trust our reports and the constant spot inspections. Oh well, that'll be another cost that gets passed down the line. But hey, at least the govt can now monitor us 24 hours a day, the government's ultimate wet dream.

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Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
. . .Oh well, that'll be another cost that gets passed down the line. . .

I envy you, sigcrazy7, that you can "pass [the cost] down the line".

I do not have that luxury.

I am totally at the mercy of the agricultural markets. Beef is worth what the market says it is at any given instant. The price I need to get to break even has NOTHING to do with what the market offers. I cannot just add the new water district's costs to my asking price. It just doesn't work that way for the rancher/farmer.

Interesting, thanks for explaining. ^

Good luck dealing with the bullshit.

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Originally posted by SapperSteel:

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
. . .Oh well, that'll be another cost that gets passed down the line. . .

I envy you, sigcrazy7, that you can "pass [the cost] down the line".

I do not have that luxury.

I am totally at the mercy of the agricultural markets. Beef is worth what the market says it is at any given instant. The price I need to get to break even has NOTHING to do with what the market offers. I cannot just add the new water district's costs to my asking price. It just doesn't work that way for the rancher/farmer.

It is still a market force thing for my industry too. I don't get to immediately ad a surcharge, but people will only do the job for a certain return, so it gets baked in. The difference in trucking is it takes about six months for capacity to respond to a change. The market response times are way longer in your business. People just don't always connect the dots about the cause and effect of ever increasing costs on our industry.
https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...0601935/m/6660087024

I grew up raising cattle back in Virginia. In that business it's much harder to respond to market forces. You can't just add capacity overnight, or shrink the herd quickly. Takes time and a whole lot of guessing the future. Furthermore, the tax man always comes calling when you ranch on land that now everybody wants to build on. I think that's probably the biggest reason my family still runs cattle.

Good luck.