Took a car in for a quick oil change. That quickly turned into: 1) need a new oil pan because the threads came out with the drain plug, 2) need new rotors and pads (something wrong w/ the car though; I changed fr/rr rotors and pads 20k miles ago, front is still at 6mm but rears down to 2mm. Rears are wearing much faster than front AND is already needing replacement - why?), 3) tranny fluid needs to be flushed and replaced again (last time was about 50K miles ago).

Normal maintenance items (albeit a bit accelerated for some). But seems like I'm going to have to put a hold on kayaks, at least one of them for now. Disappointing.

I know, first world problems. Just disappointing -- was looking forward to kayaking a lot this year. I'm not getting younger you know

This message has been edited. Last edited by: konata88,

Yeah, they sold you down the river on that one.

They get you with an new air filter too?

No, but I could tell they were thinking that they hooked a live one and was trying to figure out what else they could throw in.

I actually do trust this shop. Know each other by name. They toss in some free stuff once in awhile.

The oil pan - I used to take the care into a dealer for service. Many times, I've left with leaks because they keep forgetting the crush washer. I'm thinking they probably over torqued many times to prevent oil from dripping (which it did and I'd have to bring the car back to get the washer installed). Seriously, wtf? If you remove the plug and there is a washer, what makes you decide to reinstall w/o a washer?

The brakes are troubling. I wonder if the rears are sticking (foot brake is sticking / need to be adjusted?)?

Man, I've put 50,000 on mine, and still havent done any of that. Its a 14, so ymmv, but shouldn't the new ones last longer than just 50k?

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Yeah, they sold you down the river on that one.

They get you with an new air filter too?

or a new muffler belt

quote:

Originally posted by SR025:

or a new muffler belt

Not this time - then I know they'd be cheating... I replaced that 5K miles ago. I even got the kevlar reinforced version.

I read a plausible theory but no idea how much substance there is.

Basically, it sounds like there is some rule that rears are not allowed to lock up before fronts. So , rears are now designed, even at full pressure, to never lock up. So, much more pressure is applied to the rears than the front, even though the fronts are still doing most of the braking. Hence modern cars are more likely to wear rears more quickly than fronts.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
I read a plausible theory but no idea how much substance there is.

Basically, it sounds like there is some rule that rears are not allowed to lock up before fronts. So , rears are now designed, even at full pressure, to never lock up. So, much more pressure is applied to the rears than the front, even though the fronts are still doing most of the braking. Hence modern cars are more likely to wear rears more quickly than fronts.

Almost true, they are designed to apply as much force as the front, equal braking pressure throughout all 4 corners makes the vehicle more stable under hard braking. The rear will lock up and thats when ABS comes in. The pads in the rear are much smaller and have way less pad material making them wear out faster than the front. I see on average 25-50k miles on rear pads and 45-70k on front pads.

quote:

Originally posted by Jaywendland1981:

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
I read a plausible theory but no idea how much substance there is.

Basically, it sounds like there is some rule that rears are not allowed to lock up before fronts. So , rears are now designed, even at full pressure, to never lock up. So, much more pressure is applied to the rears than the front, even though the fronts are still doing most of the braking. Hence modern cars are more likely to wear rears more quickly than fronts.

Almost true, they are designed to apply as much force as the front, equal braking pressure throughout all 4 corners makes the vehicle more stable under hard braking. The rear will lock up and thats when ABS comes in. The pads in the rear are much smaller and have way less pad material making them wear out faster than the front. I see on average 25-50k miles on rear pads and 45-70k on front pads .

This has been my experience also.

So your wear is on target...you could just do the rears and keep an eye on the fronts if you're so inclined

I had a 2007 Honda Accord that would eat rear brake pads. About every 25k miles. And they were always worn at a slope, some material on one end and gradually down to not much on the other end.

I have a 1997 nissan with about 85,000 miles, and still on original rear pads and rotors. I think Im just now starting to hear the wear indicators.

Stuff like this makes me glad that I do my own work. Yes, it's a pain in the ass to get the ramps out, drive the car up the ramps and deal with hot oil. But I also do a tire rotation and inspect the underside of the car and inspect the brakes.

Our 2014 Kia we bought new has 56,xxx miles on it and it's still on the original tires and brakes.

My current ‘15 Subaru Legacy made it to 60k on the rear brakes. Fronts are still original with about 4/5mm left (only at 63k now). My last two BMWs made it to 60+ also on brakes.

My '06 Honda Accord needed rear brake pads after 20K miles. Front's were good.

Rear pads wear out before the front brake pads, but I hear that's common with the Accord.

good thing they didn't mention it needing halogen fluid...that stuff really jumped in price this year

I once had premature wear on rear due to a caliper that was going bad.
Another time I had premature wear on rear, one side only, due to the pad becoming delaminated and stacking up. Chewed into the rim as well.

The drain plug is EASILY remedied by installing a self tapping plug. That is what they are going to do and charge you for a pan. (Fraud)

My rear brakes get close to 200,000 before a change is needed. (again fraud)

Only an idiot strips out an aluminum oil pan and not the first time I've heard of this scam. They tried it with a coworker and she brought me to the oil change place to inspect. I immediately accused the grease monkey of intentionally destroying the pan and they should have to eat it.

They went in the parts drawer and brought out a self tapping magnetic replacement drain plug and installed it.

I told her to refuse it and insist that they broke it, they have to have it taken to the GM dealer and have the pan replaced since it front suspension had to be removed to get to it. She went into the belligerent angry black woman act and now they just wanted her out of there.

The service was now comped and she got a year of oil changes. I also showed her how to check if they actually changed the oil and filter to ensure they didn't try to scam her again.

I change the oil on my personal vehicles. But I have installed a fumoto valve to prevent the damage to the oil pan, and make it easier for me.

Thanks guys. So, I'm taking that for at least certain car makes/models/years, rapid wear of rear pads is not entirely uncommon (I see this on my other car (same make) as well). At least I have a plausible if not definite explanation. That being said, even if the pads are worn, at 20K miles, the rotors should still be good to go, right? Or does that depend on the pad (I'm using Akebono ceramic). Or is it a general rule - if the pads have worn, then the rotor is likely worn as well.

Mars, thanks for the pan info. I was curious about this since I've never had pan problems in my life. So, while the shop has historically demonstrated integrity before (and has a online reputation for having integrity), in the spirit of trust but verify, I did a little research. Given my history with the dealership of repeatedly not installing a crush washer (resulting in oil drips on my garage floor) and likely over torquing the plug probably has led to some kind of failure now (my benefit of the doubt). The dealership is why I found this shop in the first place

However, while the shop owner is still there, there are some new faces on the floor. I'll keep on eye out for further suspicious work. They'll get a pass this once.

My Subaru wears out rears faster than fronts as well.

My theory is that the brake force distributor is always trying to put equal amounts of brake pressure on all four corners. As the car nose dives under braking, brake force is distributed to the front, and as a result, the front ends up providing much of the brake force under normal stopping circumstances. Engineers have taken this into account and will put larger brakes in the front, with more pad area and better calipers.

If you drive the car gently (or if you are like me and put in a stiffer suspension), the car dives less under braking and more of the brake force remains in the rear. As a consequnce, your rear brakes are getting more of a workout with each stop, and wear out faster.

Theoretically, less nose dive should improve overall stopping distance under hard braking, and that extra stopping friction needs to come from somewhere--the rear brakes and tires.

Okay, took car #2 in for an oil change.

I have aftermarket springs/shocks installed (Eibach/Bilstein). It seems that some rubber pad / gasket split into two pieces (I'm still trying to figure out where the rubber piece came from. Part of the dust cover?). And if this is a critical part to replace or if I should just let it go.

In any case, the shop is seeing some oil on the shock. The Bilstein does have a lifetime warranty but it's not clear there is an issue. The shop is saying that if I replace the rubber part, I may want to replace the shock since it seems to be leaking (since it all comes out).

Questions for the experts:

1) Is it critical to replace the rubber piece that come off the shock (mechanic said that the car is mechanically sound, okay to drive around)? Or can I just not replace? No idea what the part is but maybe it's the "spring bumper" (looking at a picture of installing a shock for a different/similar car).

2) The car seems to drive fine. Should I be concerned about the oil on the shock (it's supposed to be a gas charged shock (Bilstein HD) but they still have some oil inside?)? If it's really leaking, that's one thing. But the warranty seems to indicate that this may be normal "Coating of film on shock body or piston rod. A completely normal occurrence, not defective." The warranty requires me to pay for replacement, send in the old shocks for determination of warranty coverage. I'd hate to do this work and then have Bilstein say the shock was fine, the oil is normal.


I'm leaning toward doing nothing (car is 2000 w/ 150K miles); only expecting it to last another 50K miles. But should I at least replace that rubber part (again, not sure what it is and what it does; I'm going to go back to the shop to pick up the pieces). Do nothing w/ the shock unless a problem is noticeable while driving.

ETA: I picked up what the shop said came from my suspension. It's a round, plastic bushing sort of thing with what seems like a very hard layer of polyurethane (or some sort of white plastic) in the middle. Looks kind of like a donut that is about 2.5" diameter, hole of about 1" diameter and about 3/4" thick. Shop says it a part that usually comes with the shock but is pretty generic (I can pick up a replacement from the dealer).

ETA2: seems like this is the strut bump stop or something to that effect. I seem to have one section of what may be 2 or 3 sections for the full part.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: konata88,