I don't use the PC phrase "homeless" for bums.

I was in LA visiting in-laws for Christmas. We leaned on them to take us on a downtown tour of a few landmarks: City Hall (Dragnet, Bosch). The security guards were fun: "You here to see the Mayor?". They told us about the observation deck, where the bathrooms were, how to ride the elevators, etc. View was nice. We then walked to the restored Grand Central Station. Beautiful art-deco architecture everywhere. But bums were encamped all along the way, mostly on freeway crossovers and around city hall. We had to walk past the tents and many of the bums were filthy and passed out. Our favorite bum was a Hispanic who was talking to his shadow as he walked; just like it was a real person there beside him. I lost the Christmas spirit. I mean, WTF? How can a city allow this? I just know that the people who work downtown hate this shit. What can be done before our great cities are overrun?

Here's a start:http://theconversation.com/most-panhandling-laws-are-unconstitutional-since-theres-no-freedom-from-speech-92498

Add that most in hospital treatment for mental illness does not exist.

Add the ones that found out that if they panhandle they can set their own hours and not have to pay taxes and still get public assistance, bingo, we have created a monster.

quote:

Originally posted by shovelhead:

Add that most in hospital treatment for mental illness does not exist.

This is a biggie. My wife is LCSW (Licensed Clinical Social Worker) with a Master's in Psychiatric Social Work. For many years she worked at the Mental Health wing of a hospital here in the area.

One of her duties was to coordinate with the discharge planner. Over and over again, there was no place for the patient to go. If the patient was without resources, no family, s/he might be discharged to "the street" until a return. Revolving door. Very sad situation.

It was in the mid '60's I believe when LBJ's "Great Society" scheme forced state and county mental institutions to close, spilling patients into the streets. Democrats said people with mental health issues couldn't be institutionalized against their will.

Since then Jails and Prisons have taken the most violent.

I wish that it was easy as those who choose not to be gainfully employed.

but I can't believe that , when it comes to the homeless.


Caring for the physically and mentally disabled is very costly , its a crying shame that American's choose to pour money in to caring for criminal's , instead of rehabing and caring for it's veterans and those that can not care for themselves.

we have the ability , it's just not a priority

quote:

Add the ones that found out that if they panhandle they can set their own hours and not have to pay taxes and still get public assistance, bingo, we have created a monster.

And from what I have read, and heard, those panhandlers make a pretty nice income, not including any welfare or other gubbermint assistance.

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:
I wish that it was easy as those who choose not to be gainfully employed.

but I can't believe that , when it comes to the homeless.

Caring for the physically and mentally disabled is very costly , its a crying shame that American's choose to pour money in to caring for criminal's , instead of rehabing and caring for it's veterans and those that can not care for themselves.

we have the ability , it's just not a priority

Well said.

Our society has decided that the insane can’t, for the most part, be institutionalized or drugged without their consent. Absent family or social services and often even with that they end up on the open air psyche ward of the city street. Many of the drug addled self medicate to find something closer to normal. They won’t take the help that’s offered because that help, whether it’s a shelter bed or a ticket home, often comes with rules. We’ve got to cut the bullshit around homelessness, mental illness, and addiction. There is no right to use the public commons as your toilet, storage unit, campsite, and psyche ward. Putting folks into treatment and on meds isn’t criminalizing mental illness. There’s an old line about the right to swing one’s arms around ending at another person’s nose. It should be the same with crazy. You can be a fucking loon but shitting on the sidewalk, camping under the overpass, and leaving hazardous conditions in your wake are beyond what’s allowed. I’ve seen the problem up close and personal for most of my life and it keeps getting worse.

There are people who like to stand at the end of the interstate off-ramp with little cardboard signs saying "Please help," "Any little bit helps," "Homeless Vet" and other such things. AFAIC, it's all bullshit, nothing more than a con job. I don't know how much money they pull in (tax free), but I'll bet it's more than I make some days.



Only one time have I regretted saying no to someone who, upon further consideration, may really have needed help.

Around here the Sheriff has cracked down, but in the city there are a bunch.

But it's the SAME bums on the SAME corners, year after year. So obviously they don't need gas or car repair money anymore, but they keep playing it up.

I'll offer to buy them a meal at the nearest restaurant but I will not give them cash.

I still remember the county "Poor House". Just a notch or two above jail. Not pleasant but two meals a day and a cot. It was just far enough from town so they wouldn't be tempted to walk in for the day to bum off people or steal etc.

Seems there is the need more than ever.

My city is liberal so we have them here in numbers. Not major city with good weather numbers, but you see the same kind of thing. This time of year is nice - we have an extreme temperature ("low barrier") shelter where they can stay. Keeps them out of the parking ramps, stairwells, and business bathrooms for the most part. It has significantly cut down our calls for service related to them, but obviously we get regular calls to the shelter.

And FWIW, it hasn't really been an "if you build it, they will come" thing with the homeless population. The numbers stay pretty stable.

Here is a good article by the New York Times from 1984 explaining what happened in the 50's and 60's that closed many state mental hospitals where patients were warehoused. It boiled down to money: the states were carrying the financial burden and wanted Congress to help. Congress did what Congress does best: FUBAR.

"The policy that led to the release of most of the nation's mentally ill patients from the hospital to the community is now widely regarded as a major failure. Sweeping critiques of the policy, notably the recent report of the American Psychiatric Association, have spread the blame everywhere, faulting politicians, civil libertarian lawyers and psychiatrists"

We started having a big issue with panhandlers in my town. People were fighting over intersections to sit at, kinda like prostitutes and their corners. A news station did a report on about signs the city put up referring people to a website to donate to rather than giving to panhandlers. They interviewed one guy who said he was making $300 a day but after the signs was barely making $100. People around town were PISSED when they saw the interview. He shot himself in the foot by saying that on tv.

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:
And FWIW, it hasn't really been an "if you build it, they will come" thing with the homeless population. The numbers stay pretty stable.

Perhaps not where you are but out here we've made the living easy and the bums have flocked to take advantage. Some might have originally come for the drugs and the party but they sure as shit don't go home when they hit bottom even when a free trip can be arranged.

quote:

Originally posted by berto:

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:
And FWIW, it hasn't really been an "if you build it, they will come" thing with the homeless population. The numbers stay pretty stable.

Perhaps not where you are but out here we've made the living easy and the bums have flocked to take advantage. Some might have originally come for the drugs and the party but they sure as shit don't go home when they hit bottom even when a free trip can be arranged.

Oh, we already had a thriving homeless population before the low barrier shelter started opening in the winter. It just didn't get worse.

The development of new families of drugs starting in the 70s contributed to a lot of the homeless problem according to my headshrinker friend. Rather than retain people in institutions, state facilities can stabilize them with drugs and dump them on a city street, where they eventully stop taking the prescribed drug and become ill again.

Lawmakers saw it as a way to cut funding. The state no longer had to warehouse the insane.

My friend used to complain how the state mental facility in Austin used to periodically load a bus with medicated patients and send them to a large city like Houston where they were dumped with a few dollars and a bottle of meds.

Now, local hospitals do the same if no family avail. There is a large population of mentally ill destitute people who in the old days would be permanently housed in an institution. Now state facilities medicate and dump in a city in order to shift the burden to the city govt.

The patients go through the cycle. Most self medicate after stopping their prescribed meds and wander around the streets and sleeping in public.

Not gonna change unless a revised solution is crafted.

Of course, many of the homeless folks are not especially mentally ill. That’s a whole other issue.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by egregore:
There are people who like to stand at the end of the interstate off-ramp with little cardboard signs saying "Please help," "Any little bit helps," "Homeless Vet" and other such things. AFAIC, it's all bullshit, nothing more than a con job. I don't know how much money they pull in (tax free), but I'll bet it's more than I make some days.

https://www.mlive.com/news/ind...alership_goes_v.html

There's a guy that works the first Howell exit ramp of westbound I-96 at Lake Chemung with the sign "down on his luck veteran". Only see him on warm afternoons, never at this time of year. Probably wintering in Florida.

We also have this:http://www.centralmichigan211.org/

Last one I arrested on an overpass (last week) had been there 2 hours...

He had more money in his pocket that he earned that I would have if paid in cash....

Dude made about 150 percent what I made hourly...

STOP FEEDING THE BEARS!!!