I can't understand why America has their collective panties in a twist over kneeling, sitting or otherwise "disrespecting" the national anthem and/or the flag.

Don't they have as much right to demonstrate their dissatisfaction as others have to demonstrate their support?

I'm a Vietnam vet and I don't take offense. I'll always stand and render a hand salute, but this IS America.

I agree with you, but I also think that we all stand for other nations' national anthems out of respect. If they want to protest they should do it off the field. It would be better for everybody.

In the end everything will work out. If the players want to protest on the field, that's fine. If they NFL want's to coddle that behavior, that's fine. If the American people turn off their TVs when a football game comes on, then that's fine too.

If this has to be explained to you, I don't think it would do any good to try.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
If this has to be explained to you, I don't think it would do any good to try.

THIS ^^

I've given up trying to explain...

I was talking about this yesterday with my boss, and how I gave up my tickets for the game this weekend and I no longer consider myself a Ravens fan. The minute he said "well the thing is the original reason for this protest has been lost..." I instantly knew he was a moron and changed topics quickly. No point in even debating with him.

the act itself doesnt bother me as much as the media fawning all over them and continually attempting to inflame the situation.

Can't enjoy the game because of all the political BS. So I am not watching anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
If this has to be explained to you, I don't think it would do any good to try.

Indeed.

The "I'm a vet and..." thing reminds me of people who assert "I don't see why anybody needs an assault weapon" or "I don't see why anybody needs more than ten rounds" and then goes on to insist "I'm a gun owner."

Big whoop. Just because you drive a car doesn't mean you understand the first thing about how a car works, or even how to drive well.

I utilize the laws of physics every day. Doesn't make me a physicist.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
If this has to be explained to you, I don't think it would do any good to try.

Yep

That's what so great about this country. OP is not offended, and that's fine. And, I'm sure there are many like him, and that's fine, too. But, there are also countless of us who are offended by their acts. I'm puzzled why you, OP, are "at a loss". By your own admission, this IS America, and if thugs choose to disrespect the flag/national anthem, and they have the right to do so, then we also have the right to get our "collective panties in a twist". Why is it so hard to understand?

Btw, thanks for your service in Viet Nam.

Athletes matter as much as celebrities- they don't. All of the extra air time they are getting over this crap is only inflating their already oversized egos.

If it were someone like a police officer, soldier, or holder of public office, then that would be a different story. Someone who plays a game for a living? To hell with 'em.

You do see the issue they are kneeling to draw attention to is in fact an outright lie, right?
And they want you to believe and support the lie?
I too am a veteran. And if you fail to at least stand in respect to our country's flag at a large public event, then you have chosen to ignore the blood, toil and sacrifice of the people who went before you to ensure that flag exists today.
I have been doing something lately which I have not done in the past. I have visited the local cemeteries and sought out the graves of the veterans who have passed on before me. Often their markers are forgotten, weed covered and dirty. I take a second to yank a few weeds and brush off some dirt. And I when I come across the last small monument to a man who made the ultimate sacrifice in combat, I am thankful he is not here to see Americans kneel in open public contempt of the flag he died to support.

They have the right to do so, we have the right to think that they are idiots for doing so, and you have the right to not care.

I just deleted 3 paragraphs of text carefully explaining this issue.

Para is absolutely correct; it ain't going to do any good if you have to ask.

Maybe the fact is their reasoning. At first it started only after one player's career was on the line. He came up with his comments (or more likely his girlfriend) when his neck was on the line. As the season was a disaster and 49er fans left in droves to the point of defaulting on their season ticket psl's causing a financial issue for the team and the city who put up the funding for their new stadium.

Odd that all the years his career was doing ok, he never had these issues????

Now they continue to claim that it's because of law enforcement treating the black population unfairly and how many die as a result.

Of course they ignore more white suspects die two to one than black yet apparently they don't count because they are specifically excluded from this protest.

They again ignore that out of about 64 MILLION contacts a year, about 920 result in law enforcement shootings resulting in death. So what are the odds? Out of the average 16,000 homicides a year, what percentage is committed by a black suspect? Seems to me they have a lot better chance getting killed by a gang or drug dealers or random act of violence than in a le involved shooting.

Chicago, everyone favorite example is up to 531 homicides and 2860 shootings. (2 dead and 11 shot so far this weekend). 10 involved the and police agency. Long odds there.

Meanwhile for all their on field outrage, what are they doing about it? Taking a knee? what a joke. Are they actually going into the community on their free time to try and reverse the reasons that so many die? Are they doing anything about the fact that 67 percent ofblack families is a one parent home?

http://datacenter.kidscount.or...,12,1,185,13/432,431

How about the fact that significantly less black students graduate high school than other races in the same school systems? how many are simply passed along? Doing anything to get them to stay in and actually get a education?

http://www.governing.com/gov-d...-race-ethnicity.html

Those players show up every now and then for a NFL mandated photo op. On their own, few do anything for their own community. Living and working next to the stadium housing two NFL teams, FEW every got involved with the community. Some do but they are rare.

But it's everyone elses fault.

It's simple really: Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

First a question Bullshooter: How do you feel when someone calls you a baby killer because you were in the Vietnam War? I bet you feel pretty upset when they spout off about something they have no clue about. Let's face it, your generation of soldiers, sailors, and marines were treated very poorly because of some propaganda. We are seeing a new kind of attack against not only our military, but our country as a whole.

I'm going to break it down for you kindergarten style, so please follow along, I'll try to go slow:

The entire debacle is based on a LIE! There is not one example that can be cited that proves racial bias from the law enforcement community within the last 20 years, but a story can be told and spun by a complicit media, which is what happened.

As to why it pisses people off: I'd imagine it's because those that do not show respect for our country are spitting directly into the faces of everyone that has fought for and died while fighting the foes of our country since the 18th century. Sure, it's a right that is guaranteed, but so was shouting baby killer and a plethora of other obscenities. It doesn't really make it right though does it?


Communist propaganda seeks to weaken nations through a number of means. Distancing the armed forces of the nation from its civilian population is one of them and the result is advantageous to Communists for a number of pretty obvious reasons.

It reduces the likelihood of young persons from wanting to serve in the military
It reduces the desire to support a strong military and reduces support for military spending by that nation
It reduces support for military actions and increases the demand to end them.
It undermines troop morale

That's just some of the problems with this bullshit. There are so many forces working right now to cut the knees out from beneath the fine citizens of this country. If we stand idly by and allow the lies to continue, we will be complicit in our own demise. Don't be a useful idiot for the liberal/communist cause!

Perhaps another point of view will help:

Obviously, I don't agree with their position, but I DO support their right to say/do what they feel. It's called Freedom of Speech. I have no more right to suppress their expression than they do to suppress mine.

Where the shit hits the fan for me is WHERE they're doing it. They're creating, whether intentionally or not, the impression that the NFL, their team, the broadcasters, their sponsors, the city and taxpayers that built the stadium they're playing in and various other hangers-on are part of their "protest" and they absolutely are NOT.

If they want to spout their lame-brained bullshit in a one-on-one interview or at a night club or a police line-up or wherever, fine. As part of an entertainment venue with nation-wide viewers and thousands of attendees? Nope. Shut the fuck up and play the game you're being over-paid to play.

(Cue the "free market" pricing crowd...)

It's a bad idea to spit in someone's face while asking for their patronage. I personally find footballers as interesting as reality tv stars and the game as much as a daytime soap opera, so perhaps I am out of touch.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
If this has to be explained to you, I don't think it would do any good to try.

Agreed!

Oh and to the OP; if/when an employer knowingly allows his/her employee to actively disrespect the flag under which I served and was (and still am) ready to lay down my life for, then I as a [potential] customer will actively avoid the avoid the business up to and including pointing out to all how un-American and disrespectful of this country they are.

Yes, it is their right to do such things just as it is my right to highlight their disrespectfulness for the country in-which they are.
And please not forget, these are the same "persons" who disrespected their flag/country as representatives in another.

While the flag stands for the very right to burn/stand on....piss on it.

It does not protect you from the commercial consequences.

Their whole protest is based on a lie....and Kapernacommie is a cop hating communist aka....fucktwaddle


To be honest when the nation anthem is played and people don't react respectfully I have the urge to slap them upside the head.....now I fight that urge....except for once with my 16yo

quote:

Originally posted by Bullshooter:
...........
Don't they have as much right to demonstrate their dissatisfaction as others have to demonstrate their support?
.............

Short answer: no. Our Constitution says "Congress shall make no law...". An employer, such as the NFL, can ban these protests, if they have the stones. The employee players have no "right" to hold protests at work.