I hate this city. I hate everything about it. I never come here unless I absolutely have no other choice, but today is unfortunately one of those times.

Currently I'm at O'Hare stuck in a sweaty metal tube with 150 other people. Just got in from Anchorage on a 6 hour flight and they don't have a gate for us. Apparently we're third in line. My wife has already been waiting on the cell phone lot for 30 minutes. And I'm in the back of the plane, so everybody who was waiting to go to the bathroom in the airport is now crammed in the aisle next to me waiting to overflow the lavs.

Only the congestion and sheer incompetence endemic to Chicago would allow something like this to happen. Even in the third-world, they'd get the airstairs or even a freaking ladder. I've got legs, I can walk...I can see the freaking terminal out the window for crying out loud. Open the damn door...I'll figure out a way to get down and get over there !

The best part is, once I get out of here I get to go sit in the parking lot that is I-294 for a couple of hours trying to get out of this accursed state, and even have pay for that privilege.

Chicago. What an absolute shithole.

It ain't just Chicago and it ain't just O'Hare. I got stuck on a plane in Philly a few years ago. Three hours sitting on a hot plane in August on the tarmac not moving at all.

At some point, does this not constitute kidnapping?

I won't fly again if I can help it. I'd rather take a Greyhound bus than sit on another commercial airplane.

{tuning into WGN broadcast for pending story of man busting out on escape slide....}

quote:

Originally posted by Georgeair:
{tuning into WGN broadcast for pending story of man busting out on escape slide....}

I've always wanted to try one of those

The worst part of it is the contrast. This trip has been absolutely awesome...until we got here. Chicago has a knack for messing up the end of a nice vacation. Whether it's this airport crap or getting stuck in a monster traffic jam on I-80 or I-294 trying to get home from South Dakota or Wyoming, somehow this city never fails to find a way to get your blood pressure back up after a week or two of blissful relaxation.

When my parents lived in Tucson, AZ. in the winter we would fly down to visit. There were no direct flights to Tucson from Detroit, so had a stopover at O'Hare twice. O'Hare was messed up somehow and caused massive delays both times. Chose a different stopover after that.
Rod

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
At some point, does this not constitute kidnapping?

There was an episode of LA Law where one of the partners got stuck on the tarmac and could not get off the plane. I think he had one of those big brick early cell phones, got someone in his office to call a judge and get an order for the pilot to go back to the gate and let those off who wanted off.

Just curious, why can't they operate the AC if the plane is sitting on the runway.

Is it because they don't run the engines at all to save gas while sitting still?

Did your flight get in early?

I remember once our flight arrived about 30 minutes early. I was thinking “Great!”, that I’d be getting home that much earlier.

Then they announced that, since we were early, there was no gate available. We ended sitting there for over an hour.

quote:

Originally posted by h2oys:

Just curious, why can't they operate the AC if the plane is sitting on the runway.

Is it because they don't run the engines at all to save gas while sitting still?

Probably not sitting on the runway, probably someplace on the ramp, out of the way. Or the "penalty box."

One of our airline pilots will likely make an appearance here with the actual facts. I believe, but don't know for sure, that the aircraft is equipped with an APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) -- a small engine that drives things like electric power source, hydraulic power, etc., that is used when the main engines are not running. I think that his can supple power to the air conditioning system, but I don't know any of this for fact.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
I hate this city. I hate everything about it. I never come here unless I absolutely have no other choice, but today is unfortunately one of those times.
.
.
.
<snip>

I would HIGHLY recommend, then, you avoid Newark with every fiber of your being!!

I'm not making excuses for ORD, but they've started making taxiway repairs that should have begun a decade ago. They have to close those taxiways and some feeders into/out of those taxiways and that sometimes causes congestion in the Terminal B/C taxi lines (for United) to get to the gate. Not sure of the traffic flow for other airlines.

If feel your pain...BELIEVE ME!!!

Gotta bounce...will add more details later if necessary.

quote:

It ain't just Chicago and it ain't just O'Hare.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Exactly. Atlanta and Charlotte are pretty bad. Maybe you should contact the Mayor of Chicago with complaints.

We did get in early. I was excited. Naturaly, Chicago had to do it's best to kick my positivity in the balls.

We were not on a runway...they stuck us off in a remote corner of the ramp in basically a "penalty box" as V-Tail descrbed. I knew something was wrong when we taxied right past the E-Concourse gates and just kept on going. A/C was running...still warm in there, especially after 8 hours. Alaska Airlines crew was great...O'Hare just had to do it's best to make life miserable, like normal. The baggage claim was broken, too...some dude was down there cutting on the door with an angle grinder and smacking it...finally got it working.

And yeah, I've been through Newark. One time back when I was 15. That's a whole other story I don't have time for now, but let's just say I'm thankful that I don't live near there and don't ned to use that airport for anything ever again. In fact, the last time I was heading through that part of the country I drove 45 miles out of my way to avoid even having to set foot in the state of New Jersey. Once was more than enough.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
I think that (t)his [the APU] can suppl(y) power to the air conditioning system, but I don't know any of this for fact.

You've got it, Mr. V-Tail. APU has several purposes:
1) Provide electrical power to the aircraft on the ground if external power is unavailable or when the external power has to be disconnected in preparation for pushback from the gate.
2) Source of cooling for the aircraft. Yes...a/c provided by a ground source from the jetway or external cart mostly SUCKS in Houston. 90% of the time, I'll call OPS and have them disconnect the external air so I can start the APU and run a/c from that. It works waaaaaaaay better.
3) An "emergency" source of electrical power in flight due to engine shutdown. Engine Shutdown = loss of engine-driven generator.

When landing at any airport, I will typically start the APU as part of my "Clean Up" procedures once we clear the runway and are taxiing to the gate. Reason being is once we get to the gate and engines are shut down, it might take the ground crew well more than several minutes to connect external power and air. If the APU is running (as it should be), we can power the ship and provide comfortable cabin air while we're waiting for that to happen.

In the case of landing and having to go to the Penalty Box (yup...V-Tail named it correctly, at least for ORD) and having to sit there waiting for a gate, depending on the weight of the aircraft, we can typically shut down an engine to save fuel and crank the APU to provide air. We can then taxi to the gate single-engine once given the "all clear".

As an additional note, once the engines are started, they can obviously provide conditioned air to the cabin and cockpit. HOWEVER...the thrust must be bumped up to about 28-30% to provide enough pressure for the system to generate good air flow. Since that would waste gas and overheat the brakes because you would be taxiing too fast, the thrust levers pretty much stay below that threshold during taxi, hence cooling sucks if you're relying on the engines to cool the cabin/cockpit while on the ground before takeoff.

For that reason, I have started recommending to my Captains that it might be a good idea to keep the APU running so we can keep the cabin cool on these horrible hot days and then shut it down and put air on the engines right before taking the runway.

Despite that being an authorized supplementary procedure per our book, unfortunately not everyone thinks outside the box. So they start the engines, kill the APU, then ROAST everyone in the back until takeoff when the engines do kick in and start cooling the plane.

Same thing might happen if you get sent to the penalty box. You're sitting there with the engines running, but they're at idle thrust and not doing ANYTHING to provide air flow in the cabin. The smart crew would shut down one engine (if operationally able), crank the APU, and then allow the APU to provide cool cabin air.

OK...that's enough on B737 APU electrical and pneumatic systems for today.

Back in the eighties, wife & I had to do a similar unscheduled stopover in Chicago.

There was a hot dog vendor, so, we got genuine Chicago Dogs!

Darned if they weren't much better than the ersatz ones we had back home.


That's what I remember about our Chicago diversion.

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:

genuine Chicago Dogs!

Darned if they weren't much better than the ersatz ones we had back home.

Chicago dogs were great "street food!" One of the things I liked about living in that city, fifty years ago (when they had a real, no-nonsense mayor).

If you ever have reason to get over to my area (adjacent to Orlando), Chicago Dog & Co. on West SR 436 herein Altamonte Springs, has really good Chicago style hot dogs, including their Chicago Dog, Polish Sausage, Ditka Dog, and Maxwell Street Polish. Try one of each, followed by an Alka-Seltzer (plop, plop, fizz, fizz).

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

If you ever have reason to get over to my area (adjacent to Orlando), Chicago Dog & Co.

Sorry you had a nasty experience there in Chicago, 92fstech.

Never get involved in a land war in Asia, and never fly through Chicago O'Hare.

Looks like The Berghoff Cafe is still open at O'Hare (Concourse C, Terminal 1). Haven't flown in five years, but whenever I had an ORD layover would hope there was enough time to get there for a bite to eat. Other that one spot, not many happy memories of O'Hare.

Please blame Chicago and not Illinois. They out vote and out number us. We are just trying to hang on.