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One of my grandsons (16) was going to be in town today to register for school. So I told his mother I would pick him up when he was done, feed him lunch and we could go to the range. The plan was to give him a chance to shoot his rifle that we built this winter for his birthday. <bitch mode ON> So we get to the range where I have a gold membership, give them my card as usual and tell them I’d be signing in 1 guest, my grandson. “Well do you have legal guardianship of him?” No, but he’s just one of 4 grandchildren that I’ve been bringing with me for years. “Well, you’ll have to get one of his parents to sign this before we can let him shoot.” And hands me a form. WTF! Apparently some snowflake’s child was brought to the range by a relative, not one of the parents. When snowflake mom found out, she went ballistic, saw a potential payday and knew that the range’s insurance company could be used as leverage. There was no law broken, but that rarely matters any more, does it? So she threatens to sue for enough money to put them out of business. Have we heard this before? So now every time someone brings in a “minor” they either have to be the parents or have a legal note from mommy. Can’t keep track of her kids. Probably intimidated by whatever relative brought the kid to the range. And the best part, thought they found a payday. The range wouldn’t tell me but I woouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t pay off this elitist panty waste as well as agreeing to card everyone. <bitch mode off> I don’t blame the range owner, he’s got a lot of investment and has a business to make profitable. But WTH is happening to our country? You guys get out there and vote in November. We have got to stop some of this crap. ———- Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for thou art crunchy and taste good with catsup. | ||
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Member |
Should be suing the relative; not the range. Our range does the same - parent or legal guardian has to sign the waiver for the child, in person. _________________________________________________________________________ “A man’s treatment of a dog is no indication of the man’s nature, but his treatment of a cat is. It is the crucial test. None but the humane treat a cat well.” -- Mark Twain, 1902 | |||
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safe & sound |
Yes. Problem solved. | |||
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| Member |
Yeah, I could have but that would have broke rule 14. I try not to break it. ———- Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for thou art crunchy and taste good with catsup. | |||
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| That rug really tied the room together.  |
Suing a range? For what? What damages were done? A minor had a good time, safely supervised by adults in the shooting sports arena, was unharmed, and went home afterwards? Yeah, go ahead and waste the paper on that one. ______________________________________________________ Often times a very small man can cast a very large shadow | |||
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Member |
File child endangerment against the mom. What mom doesn’t know where her kids are and what they are doing. Stupid fucking people placing blame everywhere but where it belongs. "Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy "A government is just a body of people, usually, notably, ungoverned." Shepherd Book | |||
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His Royal Hiney |
Just from a layman's point of view, he's a minor and he's your grandson and he's with you. His parents know he's with you, right? You didn't kidnap him. While he is with you, you are his guardian. If you took him to a hardware store to buy a spray can of paint and you accompany him to vandalize something, who would his parent hold responsible? So I say you were his legal guardian at the time. "It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946. | |||
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Ammoholic |
Not sure what rule fourteen is, but I sure as heck follow rule #9. Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
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Corgis Rock |
Rule 14: Never argue with a troll. Rule 9: Always carry a knife. “ The work of destruction is quick, easy and exhilarating; the work of creation is slow, laborious and dull. | |||
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Member |
Actually, (internet lawyer mode engaged) I think you did have temporary legal guardianship of him. He was in your charge and you had even informed his mother of what you were doing and so I think morally you could have signed that form. My Native American Name: "Runs with Scissors" | |||
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| Member |
Gibbs rule 14 You can bend the line, just don’t break it. Sorry, I’ve been binging on old NCIS episodes on Netflix between baseball games. ———- Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for thou art crunchy and taste good with catsup. | |||
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| Member |
Unless you have an order from a court assigning legal guardianship, you don't have it. Forum lawyers, feel free to chime in.... _________________________________________________________________________ “A man’s treatment of a dog is no indication of the man’s nature, but his treatment of a cat is. It is the crucial test. None but the humane treat a cat well.” -- Mark Twain, 1902 | |||
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| safe & sound |
Would his parents have any court paperwork to show the clerk? And if not, how otherwise would they prove it one way or another? When somebody asking you a legal question isn't a lawyer, and isn't a government employee, they can't verify anything. They probably don't even know what they're asking. | |||
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| Lucky to be Irish |
I had the same issue with my nephew who has been shooting with me since he was around nine years old. He lives in a different state and was with us for the summer back in 2015. I started going to a new range and they wanted proof his parents gave their consent. We prepared a temporary guardianship document and his parents had it signed and notarized. That seemed to satisfy them. | |||
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Member |
This is why I like to go blasting on BLM land out behind the dump. Demand not that events should happen as you wish; but wish them to happen as they do happen, and you will go on well. -Epictetus | |||
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Member |
Dig for info and get the mom's name.............send her some regards! The time to travel the high road is over................ "No matter where you go - there you are" | |||
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| Member |
I still say sign the damn form.... the only function of the form is to give the illusion that the gun range is not liable if something goes wrong. The most important word in what I just wrote is 'illusion'. Written and signed disclaimers serve only one real purpose, they discourage someone from calling a lawyer. The gun range just wants a signature... give it to them and then go shooting. My Native American Name: "Runs with Scissors" | |||
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| Member |
Took my own daughter to a local range only to be told nope, she's not 18. So she had a wonderful time behind the glass while I shot for 30 min. "The days are stacked against what we think we are." Jim Harrison | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process  |
I don’t think they care much about it, but their insurance has made it a requirement. If they have the parent/guardian release, they are covered if something goes wrong. If not, they get to pay to take care of it. Many, if not all, of the really idiotic policies imposed by otherwise sensible businessmen sre dreamed up by insurers. Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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| Member |
It's all just someone down the line trying to justify their job.... signing the form does not release anyone from liability if a bad thing happens. My Native American Name: "Runs with Scissors" | |||
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