I listed it in the ad, and it's less than the going rate on the other usual places. Besides, that's not how we haggle. I'm not just going to bend over, pull my pants down, and hand you a jar of Vaseline. If I'm selling stuff, I'm generally selling multiple items because I need quick cash to put together money for something I want. If I say my dog got cancer and my house burned down, then it's another story.

If you've never worked retail, and you pull this shit, allow me to walk you through how people actually haggle, and I don't mean the back-and-forth street vendor in Morocco nonsense you see in the movies, but when someone actually wants to buy something from someone who's motivated to sell.

Say I have something listed for sale. Let's give it a nice, round number. Call it, say... $500 plus shipping, and you want to pay less. Ok, if you ask what my best price is, I'm going to tell you it's $500, and I may or may not throw in shipping. If you instead say, "will you do $425, shipped?" then I'm much more apt to just say "ok, how about $450 all-in?" Let's say shipping is around $25 at the absolute cheapest, because it is. That's still $75 off my asking price. That's not doing too badly, there. Hell, maybe you ask if I'll do $450 shipped and I just say yes. You didn't even have to work for it.

Say I have multiple items listed, the one at $500, plus several others around $300. You could say "How about Item A and Item C for $600, shipped?" See, now you've shaved about $250 off my asking price and it's still a ridiculous offer, but you've made it more worth my time because you've made it clear you're willing to spend the money instead of just try to jerk me off. I could counter with "call it $750 and we're good" you come back with $725 and we agree. I've now come down $125, and while I'm losing some money, the stuff isn't sitting and you're getting a deal.

Those scenarios assume it's not something you can just order on Amazon and that you're not just looking to kick tires. If you want to buy something for less, offer less. Worst I can do is say "no." Even then, it doesn't mean the deal is over, it means you can come up a bit unless I've pulled a tempter tantrum and told you to stick it in your ass, which I'm not going to do, because I'm willing to deal.

Now, on the flip side of the coin, unless someone is asking a very fair price, or it's an item under a hundred bucks, I never just say "I'll take it." If the item meets those conditions, or it's something I just really have to have and I'm not going to risk it slipping by, I'll offer less every time. I'll do like the above examples, and maybe I won't even offer that much less, maybe I'll say "Hey, will you take $475, shipped?" and you'll probably say "yes" because generally, people don't list at their bottom price, they expect to get haggled and build in some breathing room. This assumes we're talking about someone who knows how to haggle and not a schlub who says "I know what I got." Great, hang onto it. But for everyone else, this is pretty standard stuff. Figure 10% off as a safe offer every time, and 15-20% is where you start digging into the meat of the deal. I've offered people less, they've said "no," and I've said "ok, shoot me your payment info, I'll take it at your asking price." I know I just blew some minds with that, but there it is.

Again, if someone asks what my best price is, it tells me they don't know how to play ball, and that I don't have to. If I tell you my bottom dollar, then often as not, you're going to walk because you're kicking tires and that's not worth my time. That's why I don't do it. I don't price stuff so that it won't sell, so all you've cost me is a few seconds to type an email saying "no."

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
I listed it in the ad, and it's less than the going rate on the other usual places. Besides, that's not how we haggle. I'm not just going to bend over, pull my pants down, and hand you a jar of Vaseline. If I'm selling stuff, I'm generally selling multiple items because I need quick cash to put together money for something I want. If I say my dog got cancer and my house burned down, then it's another story.

If you've never worked retail, and you pull this shit, allow me to walk you through how people actually haggle, and I don't mean the back-and-forth street vendor in Morocco nonsense you see in the movies, but when someone actually wants to buy something from someone who's motivated to sell.

Say I have something listed for sale. Let's give it a nice, round number. Call it, say... $500 plus shipping, and you want to pay less. Ok, if you ask what my best price is, I'm going to tell you it's $500, and I may or may not throw in shipping. If you instead say, "will you do $425, shipped?" then I'm much more apt to just say "ok, how about $450 all-in?" Let's say shipping is around $25 at the absolute cheapest, because it is. That's still $75 off my asking price. That's not doing too badly, there. Hell, maybe you ask if I'll do $450 shipped and I just say yes. You didn't even have to work for it.

Say I have multiple items listed, the one at $500, plus several others around $300. You could say "How about Item A and Item C for $600, shipped?" See, now you've shaved about $250 off my asking price and it's still a ridiculous offer, but you've made it more worth my time because you've made it clear you're willing to spend the money instead of just try to jerk me off. I could counter with "call it $750 and we're good" you come back with $725 and we agree. I've now come down $125, and while I'm losing some money, the stuff isn't sitting and you're getting a deal.

Those scenarios assume it's not something you can just order on Amazon and that you're not just looking to kick tires. If you want to buy something for less, offer less. Worst I can do is say "no." Even then, it doesn't mean the deal is over, it means you can come up a bit unless I've pulled a tempter tantrum and told you to stick it in your ass, which I'm not going to do, because I'm willing to deal.

Now, on the flip side of the coin, unless someone is asking a very fair price, or it's an item under a hundred bucks, I never just say "I'll take it." If the item meets those conditions, or it's something I just really have to have and I'm not going to risk it slipping by, I'll offer less every time. I'll do like the above examples, and maybe I won't even offer that much less, maybe I'll say "Hey, will you take $475, shipped?" and you'll probably say "yes" because generally, people don't list at their bottom price, they expect to get haggled and build in some breathing room. This assumes we're talking about someone who knows how to haggle and not a schlub who says "I know what I got." Great, hang onto it. But for everyone else, this is pretty standard stuff. Figure 10% off as a safe offer every time, and 15-20% is where you start digging into the meat of the deal. I've offered people less, they've said "no," and I've said "ok, shoot me your payment info, I'll take it at your asking price." I know I just blew some minds with that, but there it is.

Again, if someone asks what my best price is, it tells me they don't know how to play ball, and that I don't have to. If I tell you my bottom dollar, then often as not, you're going to walk because you're kicking tires and that's not worth my time. That's why I don't do it. I don't price stuff so that it won't sell, so all you've cost me is a few seconds to type an email saying "no."

I just sold a car- I feel this rant in my bones right now.

Couldn't agree more. I've got a few items for sale online right now. Some yahoo messages me about one of them asking if I'll take x amount (about $100 less than I was asking). I say yes and give him a couple of payment options. Then he goes silent. Nothing more.

A few days later he emails again saying he'll offer $50 less than his original offer price. Really? I let him know he'd offered x, I accepted and if he still wanted it the price was x, not x -$50. No reply.

Yesterday I get a message saying he'll offer $100 less than x. At this point I figure he's a troll, but to be nice I say "I'm sure you would." The price remains x, take it or leave it.

If I hear back again with anything other than he'll take it at X, he's persona non grata and I won't sell it to him at any price. If he offers less than x again he's done. After that, even if he were to use the buy it now feature which is more than X I'll cancel the sale.

Others have send emails saying, if items such and such doesn't sell let me know what you'll take. Again, really? The price is listed. I also have at the bottom of the ad a line - if your interested email me with a reasonable offer. Nope - they want to know my bottom line. Like the OP, my bottom line if the price listed unless you offer me a number to begin negotiations.

The fine art of haggling is indeed a lost art. We should all go the the Grand bazar in Istanbul to learn how it’s done. We were there several years ago and we’re interested in a rug. The vendor offered us apple tea and small sandwiches and proceeded to tell us where it was made, what dyes were used in the yarn etc. The whole process took about an hour and we were able to get about 40% off his initial price. I’m sure that if I was a Turk I could have gotten it for less but I actually enjoyed the process and believe it or not they periodically call me offering to bring some of their latest product to my home in NC.

In the end we both got what we wanted.

I take the opposite approach. I loathe that somehow there's an expectation that 'haggling' should and/or is expected to occur in seemingly any, and every sale! We are at the point where sellers are forced to 'ask' an unreasonable price, because assholes will undoubtedly respond with an insulting lowball offer even the most fairly priced items. Further, said asshole buyers will take offense if you're not willing to haggle. Even if your selling price is stated as 'firm', you're expected to play this bullshit game! These are the same people that will brag to their friends (and across the interned) about how they ripped of a seller to get their latest prize!

What ever happened to offering an item for sale at a fair price, and buyers recognizing it as such, so as not to try an squeeze every advantage out of every deal. I guess it's gone the way of integrity, morality, personal responsibility, and the myriad of other noble qualities lost on many in today's society!

There are some people that simply don't want to haggle, so rather than make an offer, wait for a response which is usually a counter than another counter or acceptance, they don't want to be bothered.

Case in point. I emailed 3 Toyota dealerships when my wife wanted a new Civic hatchback, all 3 were getting the exact same spec'd and color car in. I told them, I was going to either pay cash or lease, That I have perfect credit and lease terms I wanted and what was the out the door price and I'd come in and sign the papers. My wife works 6 days a week. I used to sell cars and know there is like $700 profit in that car, I know everything is selling at retial and I could care less, I don't want to be bothered with spending 2-3 hours at each dealership or A dealership getting jerked around. They told me I'd have to come in, Yet I still get emails from them. I ended up calling a friend of a friend who owns a Mazda dealership as my wife also wanted a 3 hatchback. He had his sales lady call, we came in, test drove it by ourselves, she gave me the 2 prices with a little discount. We agreed to lease it and were on our way, easy peasy without all the BS. Why is it so hard for people to just give someone a number they'd accept? knock $20-40 off or whatever and simply email a price back, takes more time to send them a response saying otherwise.

To be sure, there are people who hate haggling, but I still think some basic knowledge of how it works is beneficial. If you say you're firm on your price because you don't want to do that dance and people still try, I still addressed that in my post. It's just that a lot of people can't handle "no" and quit at that point, or were unwilling to pay your asking price in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
We are at the point where sellers are forced to 'ask' an unreasonable price, because assholes will undoubtedly respond with an insulting lowball offer even the most fairly priced items.

I think we've been at that point since trade was first conceived. There has always been haggling and I think it's only a relatively recent concept that the price is the price and can't be negotiated.

The man who taught me this stuff has made a living off selling guitars since the early 70's. There was a guy who came in the store one day and went straight to a Les Paul Doublecut in emerald green that had been hanging on the wall for about a year and said "I'll give you $500 for that guitar." He didn't look at the tag, he didn't even lay a hand on it. He evidently knew which one to go for because his teenage son wanted it and by golly, he was going to get it for a steal. We had it priced for $2k. My boss laughed at him and said "I'd rather you just walk right back out the way you came in." Voices were raised, fingers pointed, things got really heated really quickly, and I thought I was going to have to call the cops. It ended with the guy paying $1,650, some goodies thrown in, and him walking out the door with a smile on his face. It absolutely blew my mind. Somewhere in there, my boss told him "Look, this ain't the 50's, and we don't negotiate that way anymore. You give me a reasonable offer and we can talk, otherwise, I don't have time for you." He explained to me that lowball offers are just probing attempts to see what people can get away with. If you do anything other than laugh in their face and say "I can't do that, I [enumerate reasons why not]" and then give them a ridiculous counter offer, then you've lost right there. "If I get insulted at a lowball offer, I'm not making a sale whether he is actually thinking of buying or not."

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
Why is it so hard for people to just give someone a number they'd accept? knock $20-40 off or whatever and simply email a price back, takes more time to send them a response saying otherwise.

It's not hard, it's counterproductive more often than not. It's like a guy walking up to some girl at the dance and saying "what will it take to fuck in the back seat of my car later?" Maybe it works every once in a long while, depending on the girl, but he'd probably have much better luck simply asking for a dance, smiling, having a few laughs, and you know, actually trying. It's almost always the case that someone asking what your lowest price is has no intention of buying, they're only interested in wasting your time. An offer indicates a willingness to deal.

I've had a number of experiences just like mojojojo's - people almost never just take the "name your price" price. Only once have I had that not be the case, but the guy led with "I sold my HK91 to pay for my kid's braces twenty years ago - I was broke because my ex wife became a meth addict and I didn't know yet why all the money was gone. Yours looks just like mine did and I don't want to go back and forth, just name your bottom dollar. I can pay cash, today." That series of statements indicates an actual intent to buy, and tells me he knows if he doesn't qualify his wanting to sidestep the haggle that I can't take him seriously. He was an FFL and came to my house that day with an envelope full of crisp new $100 bills in the exact amount of my amended asking price that was a few hundred off my ask.

I'm not a Toyota dealership and I'm not making $700 on anything, and besides, those dealerships have to make a certain amount on a car to keep the lights on. I still suggest that it would be more effective if you looked around at prices and made a reasonable offer wrapped with "I'm the kind of guy who walks when people haggle, so if you want a sale, find a way to make this number work."

smlsig gets it. Only in America is this a life skill we've either lost, or somehow never passed down through the generations.

I have learned to use the delete button,

ebay, usually silly low offers, and i will hit the reply with offer and not a few bucks off, sometimes that works, sometimes not,



ditto gunbroker, and now that they charge sales tax and the compliance tax, I get a lot of grumbling about not paying that,



another kicker is the gunshow crowd, every now and agian I get the best price out the door BS, and best cash price,

I charge Sales Tax (I am a business) so you are going to pay sales tax ,,

I think I came across that tactic in a negotiation seminar before. It's a legit tactic people use; it disregards the listed price, makes the seller reduce the price, and that's the actual initial negotiating price. Also, who ever gives the first number is at a disadvantage.

As a buyer, you don't know what the seller is actually willing to sell for. The price you offer may be above the seller's minimum and he can then negotiate for additional money. Making the seller give you a second price gives an indication of how willing he is to negotiate.

You sticking with your original asking price is also acceptable. Some would even give a "better" price that is higher than the initial price and then ask if the buyer would be willing to pay the "best" price. This throws the ball back to the buyer and makes him come up with the first price in the negotiation process.

My favorite is:

Them: “wats ur bottom dollar?”

Me: “Bottom dollar is $500”

Them: “OK, will u take 200?”

Me: “I suppose you didn’t understand your own question”

Reply: What's your best offer?

My favorite is always, “You’ll never sell it at that price.”

My reply, “Guess I’m keeping it then.”

quote:

Originally posted by Rey HRH:
Some would even give a "better" price that is higher than the initial price and then ask if the buyer would be willing to pay the "best" price. This throws the ball back to the buyer and makes him come up with the first price in the negotiation process.

I did this early this year. I had a rifle priced at $3k and a guy offered me $2,750, shipped. I told him with shipping costs being probably close to a hundred bucks with shipping and insurance that I was eating about $350 with that offer, and that I'd happily ship it to him for $3,250. I also told him I did some looking around online and it looked like I was priced a little low, so I was bumping my price to $,3,250, but I'd still let it go for that price, shipped. He didn't respond. I updated my sale ad, and about a week later a guy registered on that forum just to buy my rifle locally. Met in person, he didn't even look it over, he just handed me my full asking price in cash. Zero drama.

quote:

Originally posted by Leemur:
My favorite is always, “You’ll never sell it at that price.”

"Then I'd rather sit on it than sell it to you for your offer. That's gotta suck."

I've dealt with a few of those clowns back when I worked at the store, but there was one who got bizarrely aggressive about it on a personal deal. I got a near-mint 1976 Gibson S-1 in trade for some stuff and went to flip it. I checked prices online, decided where mine ranked in there and listed it on a local musician's forum. In fact, I just dug it up and I have the emails from 2009. He asked for pictures, which I sent. Then he sent an ebay link to a beater and asked what the differences were "which would constitute a large price difference?" So I went through them one by one, including a refinish, broken parts, and a bunch of other parts being swapped out plus I had the original case and that one didn't. He then proceeded to tell me why it wouldn't ever sell for that price and got really nasty about it, said "it's not the kind of market to get what you 'want' for it," that I'd never get more than $900 for it, and told me I was "wasting everyone's time." I wound up trading it to the guy we subcontracted finish repairs to. I got a CPO P229 and $700. I was only asking $1,200, so I think I came out alright on that one. I was young and petty and actually emailed the guy that it did go for my asking price and a little on top. I forgot about this until looking at it now, but he was a real estate developer in Florida. If that's how they negotiate in that business, I don't want anything to do with it.

I just looked up one like mine that sold on ebay recently. Same year and configuration at $1,650, but in nowhere near as nice of shape and doesn't have the original case. The one I had is probably worth real close to $2k now.

Some of you take this way too seriously . Set a price . If you're willing to negotiate , then do so . If you're firm , tell them NO THANKS . All of this sparring back and forth is silly .

^^^Uhhh, this IS the 'Pitch your Bitch' section...Its what we do here! Perhaps you hadn't noticed...

Will you take less for face to face?

quote:

Originally posted by selogic:
Some of you take this way too seriously . Set a price . If you're willing to negotiate , then do so . If you're firm , tell them NO THANKS . All of this sparring back and forth is silly .

It's not about not being willing to negotiate. It's about listing a price and then being asked what the best price is without offering a price. If you don't offer a price then my best price is the one listed. If you want me to negotiate then start the negotiations with an offer, not a question.

quote:

Originally posted by selogic:
All of this sparring back and forth is silly.

No, it's not. It's pretty standard stuff.

Here, lemme distill the whole thing down for you: If you want to pay less, offer less. Anything else is a waste of time. Do you disagree?

When Facebook used to let us have firearm buy/sell groups, I saw my buddy Woody outta Fulton MO put up a stainless Ruger Mk II for a fair price (which I forget, been over a decade), some dude comes in with the "what's your lowest price," Woody replied by adding 50 bucks! I ended up with that MKII.