quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
I use a lot of duralast pads. No problem.

Put them on a rotor without any prep, you will see accelerated wear, and problems. Dont lube the brakes when you install them, you'll have problems. Dont clean everything, you'll have problems.

New pads can't make the brake feel spongy. That's not the pad, that's a brake that hasnt been bled properly.

Air ratchets dont warp rotors. Heat warps rotors. So can parking brake, especially when hot. I never use parking brakes.

If the caliper is leaking because it was pimped while not installed, why buy a new caliper? It's a piston. Put it back in, install the brake, and bleed. No neec to replace the caliper.

I don't have enough experience with Duralast brand pads to make a judgement either way.

I agree with your second paragraph's points but not your other blanket statements.

Different pad formulations vary in hardness so they can affect pedal feel. Once new pads have bedded in to the rotor there's an improvement in feel but some formulations never quite lose the "squishy" sensation whether there's air in the hydraulic lines or not.

On many vehicles over-torquing wheel lugs will absolutely warp brake rotors. It's one reason you see shops requiring the use of torque sticks or hand torquing lugs. I keep my impact dialed down and always hand torque lugs on everything I drive or ride.

Parking brakes will overheat a rotor only if one drives with them deployed. That's more of a driver inattention situation than any mechanical issue. Avoiding the use of parking brakes altogether is an odd choice and not viable for stick shift vehicles.

Once you overextend a caliper piston both it and the caliper bore should be cleaned and examined thoroughly before reinstalling it. If you're going to take the time to do that I would at least replace the seals. It's unlikely an aged, hardened caliper seal is going to reseat completely and a brake system is no place for a time bomb. Just shoving the piston back in and hoping for the best is dubious unless it's an emergency repair. Generally there's no actual need to replace the caliper but nowadays parts stores don't stock rebuild kits like they used to. Sometimes a rebuilt caliper is all that's immediately available and popping a caliper piston isn't something one usually plans for.

quote:

Originally posted by 41:

I can't recall but I think my 1969 Corvette had the original rotors when I sold it at over 400K miles.

I would find that VERY hard to believe!

quote:

Originally posted by cmr076:

quote:

Originally posted by 41:

I can't recall but I think my 1969 Corvette had the original rotors when I sold it at over 400K miles.

I would find that VERY hard to believe!

I've got a 2001 Accord with 305K miles on it with original rear brake shoes and clutch. Yes the rear brakes function.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
I use a lot of duralast pads. No problem.

Put them on a rotor without any prep, you will see accelerated wear, and problems. Dont lube the brakes when you install them, you'll have problems. Dont clean everything, you'll have problems.

New pads can't make the brake feel spongy. That's not the pad, that's a brake that hasnt been bled properly.

Air ratchets dont warp rotors. Heat warps rotors. So can parking brake, especially when hot. I never use parking brakes.

If the caliper is leaking because it was pimped while not installed, why buy a new caliper? It's a piston. Put it back in, install the brake, and bleed. No neec to replace the caliper.

I missed this last weekend. I'll try and address the points that I can. I'm not a mechanic by trade so there are certain things that I am ill equipped to answer (namely whether pad formulations can add/subtract from the spongy feel and the stuff about warped rotors, which doesn't really apply because the rotors got killed by metal-on-metal action, not from being warped) which I'll leave for the more knowledgeable. That leaves what I did, and why.

"Without any prep." You mean like replacing the rotors, cleaning/degreasing the caliper, and replacing and greasing the slide pins after cleaning their corresponding holes? Remember also that these are rear pads, and then remember that they have 20,000 miles on them. There's far less than half the effective life left on the 3 pads that didn't self destruct - that's unacceptable.

Caliper sprung a leak because the piston went out too far and the weakest part of the assembly gave out under pressure. Totally my fault, I admit it. Once pushed back into place with the appropriate tool, and while it worked, it continued leaking during use after reinstallation - with how much driving I do I wasn't going to risk my life on a gamble like that. I searched high and low, but nobody sells rebuild kits locally. Ford was my first stop because OEM was my first choice - Ford doesn't even offer them - only remanufactured and new calipers, and every dealer in the Memphis and surrounding areas was out of stock of both. This is a Mustang, but it's not just a "fun" car - it's my daily driver, and I couldn't afford to wait to get parts from the internet, which meant I had to go buy an aftermarket one. The braking performance actually hasn't been all that bad, to be honest, but only time will tell if it becomes an issue again. To be honest, I'm expecting one of 2 things to happen before the brakes need service again: either 1) I trade this car away for something with a little less mileage on it (this one has, as of a few minutes ago, 126,648.4 miles on it), or 2) I collect the appropriate parts to completely overhaul the braking system. That's pads, rotors, master cylinder, and lines included, but I'm still unsure as to whether I'll include the calipers, as if I'm not upgrading to, say, Brembo calipers there's little point in my mind in touching them unless they start leaking). I'm currently undecided about what I'm going to do, but I'd like to say that I plan on holding onto this thing as long as possible.

I'm glad you haven't had problems with the Duralast pads. Really, I'm thrilled for you. Unfortunately, my experience doesn't mirror yours, and apparently it happens enough for the brand to have a "certain" reputation, one which I ignored and got burned on.

quote:

Originally posted by cmr076:

quote:

Originally posted by 41:

I can't recall but I think my 1969 Corvette had the original rotors when I sold it at over 400K miles.

I would find that VERY hard to believe!

When you get some experience and keep records of your maintenance, you may learn something.

A lot of the wear deals with how you drive and how you use your brakes. Also impact wrenches used in extreme has a big effect.

Nothing wrong with using high tech pads if you drive in extreme but expect to replace the rotors since they are the weakest link.

last car I bought new, 2008 - replaced the rear pads/rotors at 90K miles, and after 122K miles I still had never touched the front pads or rotors. I always wondered if it was the quality of the parts or the fact that I'm the world's greatest driver.

quote:

Originally posted by vulrath:

I'll try and address the points that I can. I'm not a mechanic by trade

I am, which is why I commented.

quote:

Originally posted by vulrath:
There's far less than half the effective life left on the 3 pads that didn't self destruct - that's unacceptable.

The amount of miles you drove is irrelevant; the amount of braking, weight of the vehicle, driving condition, rate of application, frequency of application, duration of application, and numerous other factors from environment to installation come into play, to say nothing of the previous condition of the rotor, whether the brakes were properly broken in to begin with, etc, all affect the number of miles you'll get. Add to that whether the brakes were properly bled or cleaned and lines and fluid clean before (yours weren't), and you have far too many variables to start saying that your brakes didn't last long enough. If your fluid was as coffee-dark as you say, then brake system maintenance has not been performed and they haven't been bled previously...it's little wonder that you're getting uneven wear. The remainder of the variables can't be addressed as not enough information is provided. Was there any discoloration of the rotors? Any bluing?

Less than half the life on your pads at 20,000 miles; typical average miles is about 25,000 miles a year on a car, some more, some less. It's not uncommon to replace brake pads yearly (should be examined at a minimum yearly), without regard to all the variables. So half remaining at that point...not that unusual.

quote:

Originally posted by vulrath:
Caliper sprung a leak because the piston went out too far and the weakest part of the assembly gave out under pressure. Totally my fault, I admit it. Once pushed back into place with the appropriate tool, and while it worked, it continued leaking during use after reinstallation - with how much driving I do I wasn't going to risk my life on a gamble like that.

What's the appropriate tool?

The caliper uses a piston which is sealed with an o-ring. It has a rubber boot around the piston to keep debris from gathering around the cylinder wall and damaging the o-ring seal. Once the piston is pushed far enough out to cause a leak, it's time to hone the cylinder wall (often done with crocus cloth and can be done by hand) and to replace the o-ring.

Unless you remove the rubber seal before attempting to reinsert the piston, there's a good chance you'll gouge or nick the o-ring and cause the piston to leak. If the brake fluid was as dark as you've described, it was certainly time to go through those calipers.

Do you have a Chilton or Haynes manual for your vehicle? How about a factory parts manual with references to the correct parts? Good investments, if you're doing your own work, and a simple manual like a Haynes is a good investment for any owner who isn't doing their own work; it saves money and makes them more informed when taking the vehicle to a shop for service.

quote:

Originally posted by vulrath:
I'm glad you haven't had problems with the Duralast pads. Really, I'm thrilled for you.

My experience and your thrill is really irrelevant, but thank you.

The point is that blaming the brand is misplaced. Do so if it makes you feel better, but it's got no grounding in reality. Your description of your brakes indicates neglect, which frankly is the norm for most brakes. The fact that uneven wear occurred isn't the result of poor quality pads. It's the result of dirty brakes and numerous other potential factors. There's a cause. When taking brakes apart for service, it's wise to look for the wear patterns and consider why they've occurred, rather than simply playing the blame game. Mechanically, there's a reason. That reason should be considered and addressed.

No, brake pads aren't "spongy." They're solid objects. Some brakes may not provide as much braking as others, depending on materials, installation, contamination, and most importantly, whether they're properly broken in (installing and going driving doesn't cut it). Any potential for "sponginess" in a brake can only come from either mechanical play, or from an improperly bled line...air in the system. 99.99% of the time, it's improperly bled brakes.

Performance Friction makes the best pads. They perform well. Wear well and have minimal rotor wear.
Don't go cheap on brakes or tires. Price per mile is normally better with best quality stuff.

quote:

Air ratchets dont warp rotors. Heat warps rotors. So can parking brake, especially when hot. I never use parking brakes.

I'll bite. What has the parking brake (whether integral to caliper or "drum in a hat") got to do with thickness variation in a rotor?

All I use AutoZone, O'Riellys, and any other discount house for is chemicals and oil, maybe floormats.
It's either RockAuto or Smyth's (local in Cincinnati) or NAPA. You pay cheap prices you get cheap (and shitty) parts.
Prep work (de-rusting, cleaning and lubing) make or break any repairs. Don't have a roll-a-round with tools including a decent torque wrench or 4? Don't attempt it.

quote:

Originally posted by Oldrider:
All I use AutoZone, O'Riellys, and any other discount house for is chemicals and oil, maybe floormats.
It's either RockAuto or Smyth's (local in Cincinnati) or NAPA. You pay cheap prices you get cheap (and shitty) parts.
Prep work (de-rusting, cleaning and lubing) make or break any repairs. Don't have a roll-a-round with tools including a decent torque wrench or 4? Don't attempt it.

I dunno about all that. I get the Raybestos premium pads and the painted centric rotors for my car that tends to eat up the front brakes and it's been smooth sailing for years. I swear by them, but they certainly aren't cheap, but they are cheaper than I can get locally.

all this has done is remind me that I've got like 40k on mine and have done no brake work.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:

quote:

Air ratchets dont warp rotors. Heat warps rotors. So can parking brake, especially when hot. I never use parking brakes.

I'll bite. What has the parking brake (whether integral to caliper or "drum in a hat") got to do with thickness variation in a rotor?

If the rotor was super hot and you applied the parking brake, this could cause the rotor to warp where the parking brake pad is putting pressure on the rotor. Now, you'd pretty much have to come off of the SCCA road racing course and shut the car down and parking brake on for this to happen.

I went with EBC standard rotors (not slotted or cross drilled or anything) and the Green pads and found that they last a long time and don't eat up the rotors etc. I had to do the rear brakes after 50k miles because one caliper was hanging up on a dirty pin....otherwise they would've went another 20k miles (rears wear faster than the fronts by twice as much on my expedition) on them. The rotors had plenty of meat left to be turned.....and they put the motorcraft pads on......I noticed a big difference in brake feel and stopping distance between the motorcraft and EBC (EBC being noticeably better).

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:

I'll bite. What has the parking brake (whether integral to caliper or "drum in a hat") got to do with thickness variation in a rotor?

I said nothing of thickness variation in a rotor.