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Caught in a loop
posted
So I'm on the hunt for a 85W-140 synthetic oil for the differential on my new car. The hope (suggested by the mechanic at the dealership after a ride along to diagnose some gear whine) is that a slightly thicker oil will quiet the gear whine enough for it to stop being so annoying.

Anyway, I'm on Amazon looking at reviews and I come across this gem:

"It’s oily. What can I say? My transmission hasn’t failed, so it must be oily enough. Unfortunately cheetolini is a national embarrassment."

I'm sorry...What the fuck? What in Satan's butthole does your view about Trump have to do with gear oil?


"In order to understand recursion, you must first learn the principle of recursion."
 
Posts: 2877 | Location: Memphis, TN | Registered: August 23, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
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Everyone wants a platform. You can pity this guy for having a tiny platform. Report it to Amazon if you want to waste your time.
 
Posts: 95703 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Cycle Gear might carry it. I saw that number when looking for some 75W-90 I want for the final on my motorcycle.

Looks like you might have one not too far from you.
 
Posts: 2510 | Location: Northern California | Registered: December 01, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Caught in a loop
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My whole thing is that your entire purpose for leaving a review is supposed to be to give your experience with the product. This is an attempt to be edgy that fell flat. Yes, I do pity the person.

SigSAC, I looked there after seeing your suggestion. Unfortunately, they didn't carry what I wanted (most places only have 85W-140 in conventional), so I ended up buying the Royal Purple stuff because I could find it. I'm waiting until I have the stuff to do my transmission fluid to actually do the swap so I only have to put it up on stands the once.


"In order to understand recursion, you must first learn the principle of recursion."
 
Posts: 2877 | Location: Memphis, TN | Registered: August 23, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Any of the auto parts stores ought to have it. That's what I use in the 8.8 in my Jeep, and I can usually find it wherever.




"The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford, "it is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't the people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them. They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards."
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard, then the wrong lizard might get in."
 
Posts: 3064 | Location: Two blocks from the Center of the Universe | Registered: December 30, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You won’t find a synthetic 85W-140 gear oil. You will find many synthetic 75W-140.

85W-140 use lower quality mineral oil, and a preponderance of “bright stock” as a base oil.

75W-140 use thickeners and Group III or Group IV base stocks. Much better.

It would be quite simple to go to a Ford dealer and purchase their 75W-140 gear oil. It is very reliable, and has a 25 cSt viscosity at 100 deg C.

The Mobil 1, Amsoil, Valvoline, etc. all are available at any parts store. All are formulated well.

Gear whine is caused by “transmitted gear error.” The TGE is either incorrectly set up ring and pinion, or wear caused by any number of issues. If you are experiencing gear whine on deceleration, or acceleration, this is a sign of wear over time.

Eliminating gear whine due to setup requires a bit of expertise. And a shop. And special tools. And, maybe new pinion crush sleeve and washers to set clearance.


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Posts: 3828 | Location: Commonwealth of Virginia | Registered: January 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Caught in a loop
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Royal Purple does make an 85W-140 synthetic.

In all honesty, it did very little; no change in speeds where it whines, but a minor difference in tone. I'll probably go back to the 75W-140 at my next change interval.

I did speak to a master mechanic at the Ford dealer and he pointed out that I'd probably be looking at a pretty hefty bill to resolve the whine when all was said and done, so for now I'm going to let it be (transmission and clutch take upgrade priority; I actually already have the clutch, throw out bearing, and clutch line).


"In order to understand recursion, you must first learn the principle of recursion."
 
Posts: 2877 | Location: Memphis, TN | Registered: August 23, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
That rug really tied
the room together.
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You really want to up the viscosity that much before winter?


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Posts: 6223 | Location: Floriduh | Registered: October 16, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Regarding 75W140 and 85W140…

140 describes the viscosity range at 100 degrees C. SAE J306 gives these values. You can see them at https://360.lubrizol.com/-/med...6-Table-1170x543.jpg

140 allows 24.0 to 32.5 cSt, with the further requirement that after 20 hours rotating at a nominal load in a test bearing the viscosity must remain above 24.0. The Motorcraft 75W140 is about 25 cSt, and has no polymers within to shear down in the bearing. It is all PAO.

75W and 85W describe the torque to rotate a paddle in a sample vial of very cold lubricant. The test is useful in predicting the flow of the lubricant after an overnight parking in northern Canada, China, or perhaps the South Pole. It is a confusing way to describe the viscosity. But, a simple way to look at the difference is that 85W lubricants must spin at -26 deg C, while 75W lubricants must spin at -40 deg C. I’m not sure you will ever know the difference, and if you are at -26 deg C and driving you are one hard core git r done individual.

The base oils that are refined from natural sources often cannot flow at cold temperatures. So, most non-synthetic base oils are used in the 85W-140. “Bright Stock” is 32.5 cSt, and is one of the cheapest base oils one can use. Most often, you find this in 85W140 axle lubricants.

If a company, as reported, sells a 85W140 and claims it to be synthetic, it is most likely a curious mix of highly refined base oils, and perhaps a thickener that does not flow well at low temperatures. This would likely be polyisobutylene, or PIB, which is a cheap thickener. It has horrible low temperature properties, but combining it with a refined Group III (often considered synthetic) or a Group IV base oil it could result in 85W140.

Transmitted Gear Error (TGE) and / or improper pinion to ring setup will cause whine. If thicker lubricant does not mask it, you would have to open up the axle and adjust the pinion placement, as well as the ring gear position.


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Posts: 3828 | Location: Commonwealth of Virginia | Registered: January 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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-26 C is only -14.8 F so there are probably a few members here who drive in that temperature range yearly…
Just sayin’


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Our Founding Fathers were men who understood that the right thing is not necessarily the written thing. -kkina
 
Posts: 5314 | Location: SML & OBX | Registered: February 19, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by smlsig:
-26 C is only -14.8 F so there are probably a few members here who drive in that temperature range yearly…
Just sayin’


Uh-HUh...4-5 months of the year, just about.
 
Posts: 1687 | Location: Lake Country, Minnesota | Registered: September 06, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Caught in a loop
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quote:
Originally posted by 4MUL8R:
Regarding 75W140 and 85W140…

140 describes the viscosity range at 100 degrees C. SAE J306 gives these values. You can see them at https://360.lubrizol.com/-/med...6-Table-1170x543.jpg

140 allows 24.0 to 32.5 cSt, with the further requirement that after 20 hours rotating at a nominal load in a test bearing the viscosity must remain above 24.0. The Motorcraft 75W140 is about 25 cSt, and has no polymers within to shear down in the bearing. It is all PAO.

75W and 85W describe the torque to rotate a paddle in a sample vial of very cold lubricant. The test is useful in predicting the flow of the lubricant after an overnight parking in northern Canada, China, or perhaps the South Pole. It is a confusing way to describe the viscosity. But, a simple way to look at the difference is that 85W lubricants must spin at -26 deg C, while 75W lubricants must spin at -40 deg C. I’m not sure you will ever know the difference, and if you are at -26 deg C and driving you are one hard core git r done individual.

The base oils that are refined from natural sources often cannot flow at cold temperatures. So, most non-synthetic base oils are used in the 85W-140. “Bright Stock” is 32.5 cSt, and is one of the cheapest base oils one can use. Most often, you find this in 85W140 axle lubricants.

If a company, as reported, sells a 85W140 and claims it to be synthetic, it is most likely a curious mix of highly refined base oils, and perhaps a thickener that does not flow well at low temperatures. This would likely be polyisobutylene, or PIB, which is a cheap thickener. It has horrible low temperature properties, but combining it with a refined Group III (often considered synthetic) or a Group IV base oil it could result in 85W140.

Transmitted Gear Error (TGE) and / or improper pinion to ring setup will cause whine. If thicker lubricant does not mask it, you would have to open up the axle and adjust the pinion placement, as well as the ring gear position.


Interesting. RP definitely says"synthetic" on the box/bottle.

Yeah, I'm going to have to either deal with the whine or open it up. Right now rebuilding the differential isn't an option due to cost, so it's getting a back burner. According to the Ford mechanics I'm good mechanically, and there were minimal shavings on the magnet in the drain plug when we swapped fluids. I'll be getting a rebuild kit from American Muscle when I get a chance, and set it in the pile with the clutch kit and associated parts waiting for the time/money. I just really hope I don't have to replace everything.


"In order to understand recursion, you must first learn the principle of recursion."
 
Posts: 2877 | Location: Memphis, TN | Registered: August 23, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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