From a famous man who ended his life.

"I used to think that the worst thing in life was to end up alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel alone."

Robin Williams

I chose to leave those people and keep my life.

True story.

And as Forrest Gump sez: "That's all I have to say 'bout that."

I can tell you from personal experience that when you walk that far down the dark path, you can no longer see your family or friends or coworkers or God or anything good in your life and slowly but surely the voice in your ear saying "do it, end it, the world will be a better place without you" becomes all you hear. It's like a bad CD on repeat in your head. Luckily, something pulled me back or I would have been a statistic. Looking back on it, the issue that pushed me there, wasn't worth dying for or over, but I had taken ownership too far and made a mistake into a truly epic failure in my mind. So while in some cases it might seem like a selfish thing to do to the outside observer, it's not out of malicious intent or the intentional disregard of others feelings. Of course there are cases where the individual specifically commits suicide to hurt others or for political reasons etc.

I also believe that in some cases anger at the deceased is actually anger at our selves for not helping or interceding. That's not an absolute, more like a theory or something similar. I can tell you that when I pulled back from it and was getting help, a surprisingly large number of folks tracked me down to say that they would have helped me if I had asked and several were particularly hurt that I did not seek them out before I did what I did.

Of course your mileage and experiences may vary and I respect everyone's viewpoint on it as our viewpoints are all indicative of our personal beliefs and are therefore inherently unique.

To the OP, not that you need anyone's permission, but vent away, be angry and expunge it. It's healthier that way.

quote:

Originally posted by Palm:

Three generations of suicide, if I'm reading your post correctly. Makes you wonder whether there is part of our DNA that makes some people more susceptible than others.

There is strong evidence that both depression and suicidal tendency can be hereditary. I would be concerned about his children in the future.

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:
Most suicidal people truly do not want to die, they just don't want to be in pain any more.

Mental illness is a terrible thing and our societal sigma to it makes it worse.

I seem to recall the term "surcease suicide." An individual determines that suicide will provide surcease from the pain or other situation weighing so hard on them. The flaw in the logic is that the action will also ensure that there is absolutely no further anything period.

Some of the saddest feelings I've ever had in my life is thinking about where my friend Derek was mentally, when he scattered his brains across his truck.

Leaving a 16 y/o son here, with nothing but an unfit mother, and some zealot grandparents to finish off raising his son.

I can't bring myself to say it was selfish of him. I can't relate to addiction, or anything else the man was going through in the end.

I know he's missed, and not a single soul won a fucking thing from any of it.

But by the grace of God go I.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig2340:

....I'm sure though, that in each case the desire to end the torment exceeded the desire to defy it....

Very concise! Of course, this is the torment that the person feels.

Well, I've got to delete him from "my contacts". I'll do that tomorrow. I had to delete my handyman a couple of months ago; he was murdered in a drug robbery.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:
To the OP:

Very sorry for the loss of your friend.

To add -

You may want to take a few days before you check back into this thread. These "suicide" threads usually get into a pretty heated debate about whether a person should or should not have the right to take their own lives if they choose.

Some of the responses will likely piss you off. Prayers for comfort, healing, and understanding to you and the all those affected.

Anger is a natural reaction to a suicide, disbelief and not being able to understand why someone would do such a thing are all normal.

But, to judge someone who was in a place where they could take their own life, is something none of us can really do, because we aren't in their heads. Does a suicide affect all kinds of people? Most certainly it does.

Is everyone who takes their own life a selfish coward? No. We all possess an innate will to live, and the short circuiting of that takes more than being selfish and/or a coward. It's part of grieving to boil it down to a simple explanation.

Should people be able to take their own lives? I'd say that if you can't, are you a free man? We all have the right to punch our own ticket, but there are plenty of reasons, and responsibilities, not to.

Suicide carries with it a stigma that encourages those who are contemplating it, to hide it and not wish to discuss it. I wonder if without the stigma, the open conversation could prevent those suicides.

Over the years I've known a number of folks who have attempted and successfully killed themselves. A lot of pain is what drives them to it, and the ones who are really going to do it seem to not advertise.

It's easy as a "normal" person to look at someone elses life and not understand why they killed themselves. But, we are all distinct consciousnesses, inside our own skulls, subject to our own chemicals, hormones, memories, and more.

I'm sure there are indeed some people out there who have killed themselves, who are just selfish dickbags. But, if you learn the full story behind such a thing, it's rarely so cut and dried.

40 years ago I worked with a woman that suffered from severe migraines. We worked side by side and I respected her talent and sense of humor. One night she took a gun and walked into the woods, she didn't return. Her family believes the migraines she suffered were the cause. I can't disagree.

40 years later I still wonder if there is something I could have said or done to help. My conscious mind says no, my heart is undecided. She was a very nice lady and I am still sad for the loss.

Didn't Hemingway's father commit suicide? Believe someone else other than him in the family did too. Seems like a predispostion to suicide could be inherited.

the fear of being institutionalized is enough for me.

quote:

Originally posted by maxdog:
Didn't Hemingway's father commit suicide?

What if he did? Towards the end of his life, Ernest Hemingway was very ill, and suffering. His suicide had nothing to do with his father or anyone else.

And BTW, the song "Suicide is Painless" was written by a 14 year old boy who knew nothing of life. The nonsensical words of a half century-old tune written by an adolescent with no real life experience mean precisely nothing.

quote:

Originally posted by SPWAMike0317:
40 years ago I worked with a woman that suffered from severe migraines. We worked side by side and I respected her talent and sense of humor. One night she took a gun and walked into the woods, she didn't return. Her family believes the migraines she suffered were the cause. I can't disagree.

40 years later I still wonder if there is something I could have said or done to help. My conscious mind says no, my heart is undecided. She was a very nice lady and I am still sad for the loss.

I can certainly relate. I too suffer from sever headaches. I usually describe them as migraines simply because it is easier to explain than the actual cause. My headaches are caused by a birth defect called an Arnold Chiari malformation. If you remember from biology you have the main structure of the brain that kind of looks like one of those goofy bicycling helmets. Then you have two "balls" at the rear base of the brain called the cerebellum. My left cerebral tonsil is squished down the hole in my skull where the brain stem/spinal cord enters/exits the skull. That puts pressure on my brain stem causing my headaches. I have some sort of headache everyday of my life. I try describe them as a regular and migraine headache. I always have at least a 5 or 6 regular headache on a 1-10 scale. THAT is my normal. On a worse day I endure a 5 or 6 "migraine" headache. My headaches occasionally are not relieved by my usual meds and I end up in the ER.

All the above is said to give you a little insight to my daily pain. I have NEVER been suicidal. I have however, wished it would just STOP. It's really hard to explain that difference and I guess to people that have never had to live with chronic pain it is hard to understand. I once told a doctor that I would snort dried cat shit if it would stop the pain. I meant it. I've been in curled up in a fetal position-in a blacked out room-holding a pillow around my head trying to block out the deafening noise-crying like a bitch pain more times than I care to remember. I've been in an ER with an ER Doc gibing me the stink eye because they thought I was just there for drugs and explained that I ahd enough drugs at home to kill a horse and that I wasn't there for more drugs, I just wanted relief and didn't give two shits if whatever they gave me was narcotic or not.

I typed the above wall of text simply to say that I couldn't do that to my wife, my family, my friends or myself. I am happy and have too much to live for. I do understand how somebody could be in so much pain that they just want the pain to stop and suicide may look like a way out. I also don't think those that choose that option because of pain consider the implications or pain that it will cause their family. They just hurt so bad they will do anything to make it stop. I certainly won't judge them for it. I will pray for their family and their soul.

all these men and women that served, after reading a couple of dozen stories, I found out that all of the suicides differ from person to person.

some can't deal with what they saw, some can't deal with what they are seeing now,its not at all an easy fix, it tears my heart apart that they went over to make things better, and they can not enjoy almost any aspect of the day to day world

Suicide is a lonely, dark journey.

quote:

Originally posted by cne32507:
"Suicide is Painless” or so says the MASH theme song. But it is not painless to others who knew you, you sick son of a bitch. You left a wife and a son and daughter. You left a whole community agape. You destroyed your considerable legacy of community works.

This rant was brought on by the recent suicide of a prominent businessman in Pensacola. I knew him. He locked himself in his home’s safe room and shot himself. His other son died of a drug overdose at college 2 years ago; reported to be suicide. The businessman’s father was also a suicide. I just can’t fathom how sick a person has to be to do this.

With 3 suicides in the immediate line, you have to wonder if there are certain mental/physical pathologies manifesting themselves in ways most family lines do not suffer.

This does not excuse the persons selfish decision and the torment it inflicts on the friends and family but it may explain it somewhat.

"Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem."
Or at least that's what people on the "outside think." To someone who has faced those demons head on (personally) I can say that sometimes it seems like the only solution. At that point in their life they can be so far into the depths of depression, isolation, addiction, financial/legal troubles, relationship issues etc. etc. ad nauseum that it really feels like it's the only choice left one has any control over. For me, it was all of the examples given (and probably more) that led me to the brink of death.
There were such an odd string of coincidences that led to me being discovered before it was too late that there is no doubt in my mind it was divine intervention. Through certain 12 step programs over the years my idea of spirituality has been broadened greatly - from none at all to full on daily prayer and meditation sessions, but that was the first time I experienced the affect of something greater than myself.
Is it avoidable? Maybe. Do I get it? Sometimes. It's a final act brought on by the desperation of desperation. Looking back had I made better choices about better choices I probably wouldn't have gotten to that point. But who's to say?

TL/DR - at some point in someone's life it becomes (in their eyes) the only way to end their pain.

ETA - I'm available to talk / email.

My uncle committed suicide in 2007. He was bi-polar and had stopped taking his medications.

He told me once that when he went through a period of depression that he felt no emotion. He said it was a feeling similar to being locked in a confined space and no way to breath.

I can only imagine that type of feeling. He had to live with it. Until he couldn't any longer I guess.