The service estimates are probably pre-programmed with a time and mileage trigger to suggest specific maintenance operations and unless the service advisor actually does something besides punch in a VIN and mileage they’re going to be put in the estimate. Majority of them today are too lazy, incompetent or just plain crooked to care.

Many service writers are in it just for the money and with no conscience how they get it. For instance years ago upselling an elderly lady with an eighteen month old car a coolant flush, transmission flush, brake fluid flush, injector flush and a battery service (two felt washers and some liquid terminal cleaner) some negative reaction from the service manager today would get them “high fives” and “great upsell” in response.

In parts we only gave out what was requested by the service writers and the techs, we had no power to do anything about it. About the best we could do was to advise friends and family which writer to see for a fair outcome and stay away from the thieves and incompetents.

The philosophy “Get it when you can” is so true today.

About the BBB, I don’t think they have much power especially since the shop didn’t perform the work. Even if Texas has a system similar to Michigan’s Bureau of Automotive Repair they might look to it as a no harm no foul since the work was not performed.

At least in Michigan it appears that if the work is not performed the only way the BAR will get involved is if the repair facility refuses to release the car if the work is declined. Ultimately the best recourse for the vehicle owner is to walk away.

Even a state agency getting involved is no slam dunk. Most cases they’ll still get away with it or an admonishment “don’t let us catch you doing that again”….

Back when I was in the business, I had a service writer friend/coworker that was young, poor, and just starting out on the journey we call life. Recently married and one small child.
He owned a older Chevy C-10 pickup and he had it in the shop getting it ready for going on a family vacation.

The dealership we worked at allowed employee's to have their own personal vehicles in the shop after service department closing hours.
My coworker asked another technician to look over his C-10 pickup, and was rewarded with a huge laundry list of urgently needed repairs and maintenance.
If the entire laundry list of repairs and maintenance was performed, my coworker could no longer afford to go on vacation.

So my coworker asked me to look over the C-10 pickup after hours for the second time and see if we could trim down the laundry list so he could afford his vacation.
The only items on the laundry list that actually needed doing was the oil & filter change, lube, and tire rotation.
The front brake pads, turning the rotors, front wheel bearing repack, rear brake shoes, turning the drums, transmission service, and one leaking rear axle seal all turned out to be totally unneeded.
All of the C-10 brakes were better than 50% remaining, no brake pulsation when driving, transmission fluid was bright red and clean, no odor, and both of the rear axle seals were bone dry.
My coworker was pissed!

The dealership had recruited the other technician from one of the discount chain muffler & brake shops where technician take home pay is based on commission sales.
After that dishonesty episode, that particular recently recruited technician wasn't around very long.

My service writer coworker friend never forgot that dishonesty and has worked his way up in the service department chain of command.
Presently, he is employed at another dealership as a Service Manager, and highly regarded in the industry for his empathy, honesty and integrity.

quote:

Originally posted by cee_Kamp:

Pay them say $30,000 annually, and 13% of the work they sell in the service lane, and now that employee is hungry, motivated, and a real benefit to dealership financials.

If you ask me, this is a completely broken model of doing business. So the person recommending the service is ALWAYS working in THEIR own interest and not the customer's interest.

This is exactly why I love my small, independent local car mechanic. Got new tires at Mavis for my beater 2012 Mazda and they went into this whole song and dance about how my struts and shocks are shot and dangerous and needed immediate replacement and why don't they just take care of it then when doing the tires?

I declined and just got the tires.

Took the car back to this mechanic for new brakes which I did need and mentioned Mavis' spiel to him and he rolls his eyes and said "let me check when I do the brakes"

Got the car back and he said the struts and shocks are fine and told me "do not put any more money into this car, just drive it until it dies"

I posted here a couple or so weeks back regarding a encounter I had with a chain tire store, same store separated by several days and different writers at the desk.

On a Tuesday I went in for a tire repair, took about five or six days for the TPMS to illuminate. Two days later I had a doctor appointment about 35 miles away and some rough weather was coming in. Last thing I wanted to do was to have a flat (hate tire changing on the side of the road!) so I went in. “No problem, about an hour wait” so i waited. Finished in about an hour and a half, no big deal. Writer said “Drive it, the sensor will reset” which it usually did within a block or two, not that day though. Thought to myself “Possible bad TPMS, I’ll deal with it later”. Note, nothing said about wheel corrosion, tread depth, not a word.

Didn’t drive oh Wednesday, out Thursday to doctors appointment. I decided to stop on the way to check the tires. Both right front (repaired) and right rear were 12 psi lower than the left side. Aired them up, TPMS light resets before I’m even out of the parking lot. Ok, maybe a bad tire gauge? Happens. Saturday evening TPMS light back on. Air up again, right front low, rest ok. So I was unable to get in that week, Saturday was the only day, so it’s been just about a week and a half since the repair.

Now on Saturday, different writers inside, suddenly my tires need replacing, I'm getting close to 4/32” (his exact words)and apparently a dunk tank or soapy water from a spray bottle check showed a rim leak. Now the only way according to the writer to fix this is to replace that wheel and if one is bad the others are probably there or close to that point. About 2500 or so but “I can offer financing” card gets played. No repair was attempted, no clean the bead area, no sealer even though the auto companies have addressed its accepted use through TSB’s.

Went down the street to another chain store. They listened to my story but couldn’t get me in for a week so I made an appointment for the following week. Their diagnosis, 6/32” tread, well within as BFG says useful treadlife is up at 2/32 (guaranteed treadlife for the KO2’sis 50k, I only have 37k on them) and rim leak due to corrosion. They cleaned and sealed the bead area, as of this morning still no loss of pressure.

They did advise me that I have one rear shock that is leaking which I was aware of and that it was better to replace them in pairs which I agree. They also said that due to the mileage (138k) while not required I should consider replacing them at the same time which I do agree with. I told the writer I was looking into the soon to be released KO3’s which he verified will not be available until May and said that there was no rush to do anything but before next winter I will need to make a decision, again that will be probably be about the 50k lifespan for these tires.

And yes, I did tell the second advisor the day of my appointment of my background, maybe it did or did not make a difference in how I was treated but regardless I felt the whole situation was handled better and I was not pressured into anything.

quote:

If you ask me, this is a completely broken model of doing business. So the person recommending the service is ALWAYS working in THEIR own interest and not the customer's interest.

It is the norm for the industry, and the dealerships certainly do not consider it as a broken business model.
Fixed operations, (service department, parts department, used car/truck sales, & body shop) they are considered as the "meat & potatoes" of a dealership. They generate the profits.
New car/truck sales department, while they generate somewhat of a profit, due to aggressive new car/truck sales marketing, buyers purchase wherever the best deal is advertised.
Once the new car/truck is purchased, the money train starts as customers have them serviced and repaired.

^^^^^^^^^
Exactly what was always driven into our heads in Fixed Operations from the parts delivery driver to the parts manager, both written and oral in parts and service management schools.

In the mid 70’s the powers to be at GM recognized how much business was going to the independents once the warranty period was up so they instituted the Mr. Goodwrench program. The dealership I worked at in the Detroit area back then was one of the first to get onboard. One evening after closing I was there to allow the photo and camera crews access to the parts department. Additionally I was in one or two photos and had to sign a release to use my likeness but never saw it used anywhere.

Anyhow, GM was encouraging dealers to use menu pricing for maintenance items and deeply discounted those parts necessary to perform those tasks. The program worked well until GM started chipping away at it, killing and eating the goose that laid the golden egg so to speak.

And once again Fixed Operations began to be treated as the red headed stepchild, sales became kings and queens again even during economic downturns. Their personnel got accolades while parts, service and body shop personnel got pay cuts and plans that favored upper management and the dealers ability to buy multiple houses. And in the case of dealer groups it increased either their shareholder value or their personal bank accounts in the case of independent private ownership.

Rah rah, this dealership was in the top number of dealerships nationwide or zone wide. BFD, with all the incentives, rebates, 0% financing it wasn’t hard to push tin out the door. Now service and parts keeping all that junk on the road just keeps getting their noses rubbed in s*** and told that we need to try harder, no corporate or dealer recognition, just like a mushroom, kept in the,dark,and,fed s***!

I did my time, forty seven years worth and didn’t look back once I left. Very few dealers I ever worked for, probably three out of ten ever recognized Fixed Ops personnel. One previous to my last one, he used to give all of us bonuses based on CSI for the quarter.Last one just bought more houses and toys for himself.

I posted this in February of last year:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
I bought my truck in 2007. I thought it was a great deal that the dealership included free oil changes- except that every time I got my oil changed I had to go to the dealership. There ain't no quick in and out with these people, unless you factor in how they try to screw you by slipping it in and out.

I'm waiting for my truck. The salesperson- a female- comes to me and says "Your water pump is going out" and offered to replace it for some obscene price, 1100 bucks or whatever.

Oh, gee, what are the odds of that, huh? My water pump goes out as soon as it gets in the service bay, but before that, no leaks, no overheating. I asked her to please just change my oil. This puzzled her- that I would want to drive away with a failing water pump.

I didn't just fall off the hay truck. Do you know- that was more than ten years ago. I'm in the Guinness Book of World Records for the slowest failing water pump ever and it's still going out. Fuckin' crooks.

BTW, my water pump is still the slowest failing part ever.

^^^^^^
Well at least she didn’t try to sell you a can of water pump conditioner or some other nonsense!
“Going out” is such an ambiguous term, like my getting close to 4/32” when the tread was at 6/32 and wear bars were at 2/32”

I quit driving GM products after 2012, just my minuscule protest of various reasons, started driving a Jeep. Went to the closest FCA dealer for service and the female service writer starts putting on the charm while starting into the flush services and how they will prolong my vehicle’s life but before she got to the part of restoring my libido I stopped her.

Basically told her that we would get along just fine if she didn’t try to blow smoke up my ass with wallet flushes (exactly what I called them) as I told her of my background.
Her reply was “Fine, I don’t like selling them either but the service and parts managers insist that I do.”

She wasn’t there the next time I went in for a oil change. Maybe she got fed up too.

@ shovelhead,

They always included used car/truck sales in Fixed Operations where I worked simply because there wasn't national or local TV advertising with set pricing.
Dealers set their own pricing on the used stuff to some degree.
Price it too high though and it just doesn't sell. Sell used stuff too cheaply and for too long, and the used car manager got replaced.

I always liked the GM crate motors and SRTA transmissions (service replacement transmission assembly) that the parts guys sourced for us.
Competitively priced, and a great warranty!

I had an ex sister-in-law that had a Chevy Astro van. Blew up the motor from lack of oil changes.
We put a brand new GM crate motor in it.
~ 45k miles later, it came into the shop on a wrecker again. Seized motor. It still had the black painted oil filter on it, when the crate motor was built.
Some folks are just slow learners.
Somehow, magically, warranty covered the seized crate motor.
I'm glad she is now an ex sister-in-law.

The engine and transmission program was a game changer starting with the Targetmaster 350 around 1975 or so. We kicked the rebuilders asses with an engine at that price point that was completely new, no used or remanufactured parts inside or out. Not that some rebuilders used to lie saying “I opened one up and xxx was a rebuilt part” or the allegations that because the engine was built in Mexico it’s quality was suspect which was untrue. We had more problems out of the 35’s and 350’s built at Flint Engine percentage wise, all one has to remember back to the 70’s and the camshafts that had flattened lobes, cold engine startup main bearing knocks, oil consumption through valve guides and seals and how bad things were.

^^^ did you ever find any loose bolts on top of the pistons?
We were buying the new 350’s for our dump trucks. Only had one with a bolt but everyone we got had the heads pulled and checked. Gm paid for the new head gaskets.
Was the US workers doing it to the Mexico engines.

This thread is a good reminder of why I avoid stealership service like the plague.

I love how you can buy a car from them and it's the best car ever built in the whole world of cars, then come back in 6 months for a simple oil change and suddenly it's the biggest piece of shit ever assembled by drunken monkeys and all this work is urgently needed.

Screw that entire model.

quote:

Originally posted by Mustang-PaPa:
^^^ did you ever find any loose bolts on top of the pistons?
We were buying the new 350’s for our dump trucks. Only had one with a bolt but everyone we got had the heads pulled and checked. Gm paid for the new head gaskets.
Was the US workers doing it to the Mexico engines.

No, I can say with confidence we never saw anything like that but those engines only came with plastic bags over the valley and intake ports so anything was possible accidentally during manufacture, shipping or storage together with out and out sabotage. One of the reasons those engines were priced as low as they were was while early versions were Flint produced due to costs the later ones were produced in Mexico. So it’s possible there was some animosity that manifested into sabotage. I bought one in ‘79, mine was Flint production.

I had a friend long ago (obviously) at the Ford Wixom Assembly plant who was an inspector, also known as the Lincoln Plant. If someone was looking to do a number on someone and the victim installed some sort of small hardware a handful of it dropped down an intake manifold and ingested would merit a tear down and a tracking of who installed that particular piece. The factory equivalent of “these aren’t my pants Officer”……

Write this General Motors TSB number down for future reference if you get pressure from a dealer service department to perform flush services: 04-06-01-029J dated March 2020.

Interesting read.

I have two Nissan dealers near me that are always running oil change specials super cheap . It's a loss leader designed to get you in the door and upsell you on other maintenance items . I got a synthetic oi change for under $50 and told the nice lady " No thanks " on all the other recommended service .

The check engine light FINALLY came on in my old Nissan with 390,000 miles. One cylinder has extremely low compression.

So, I will be remedying the issue myself.

I don't push these extra maintenance services, unless of course the car truly needs them or is due for them by time/mileage.

I have done almost all of the oil changes on my car myself, but have let Sears do it a couple of times. They put "fuel injection service recommended" on the work order but didn't push it. I was waiting for them to recommend a power steering flush (can be beneficial, but my car has electric steering, so no fluid), but they didn't go for it.

I think it's hilarious the way the service writers at my dealer push the 3k oil change, brake flush at 20k, transmission (sealed unit) flush at 23k... until you remind them that you have 2 years of covered standard services. Then they pull back to the book with the 6k oil, 30k brake flush and no transmission service.

And I LOVE how they try to get me in the office to explain the difference, no thanks, I want you to explain it at the counter within ear shot of the other people you are trying to squeeze!

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:
The check engine light FINALLY came on in my old Nissan with 390,000 miles. One cylinder has extremely low compression.

So, I will be remedying the issue myself.

I'm no mechanic, but I think you've got a bigger problem, because that engine ain't even mounted in the vehicle. You can't go nowhere without an engine. I looked it up.

I recently took our 2006 Odyssey, about 175,000 miles, to a local AAA auto repair place for vibration under acceleration. We had the CV axles both sides replaced maybe two years ago, but symptoms were similar. They said they would take a look. Turned out it was the CV axles which they replaced; but they also wanted to upsell about $2,000 in other work which was not causing any problems.
We’re not planning on driving this until 300k miles.

I’m just starting to see this more and more; went to AAA because thought they would be reputable . Never again!