An oak came down right near a trail so I went for the saw and tractor. The original chain on my new saw was finally getting pretty dull so I put on a brand new 20" chain and started cutting in 4' lengths to take to the house to section and split. With that new chain the saw was cutting through oak like it was pine! Then making the next to last cut it touched a rock that was sticking up behind the tree and under leaves, I should have looked closer. But a brand new chain! I had sharp 18" chains back in the garage so I changed bars and finished but still.

Rocks are especially magnetic to new chains.

You're right operator. After I bought my new saw last year I decided to start being extra careful keeping it away from dirt rocks, etc. and I was successful, the original chain held up for the better part of a year. Well it had been dull the last couple outings, but still that was impressive for me.
Then this.

Oregon-style sharpener

Getcha one of these if you don't already have one. I went up a few notches and spent around $130, but still significant savings over the Pro model Oregon unit. Consistent angles, razor sharp chains, and quick.

I save my mostly worn-out chains (when it's almost down to the little hash mark on the tooth) for when I KNOW I'll be tangling with dirt, rocks and embedded fence wire.

I should have bought a good sharpener many years ago. I just hang the dull ones on a nail and when there are 4-5, drop them off at the local Southern States where they sharpen them for $7 each. They used to be $5.

I'm hoping this wood will be seasoned come winter but being that it was live it may not be completely dried. What's your experience?

Depends to some extent on the weather and how it's stored.

Split, stacked loosely enough so some air gets to it and stored under cover (shed, not wrapped in a tarp), it should be burnable by next Winter, but not completely dry. I tried to stay at least a year ahead on firewood.

I've tried a number of sharpening methods, both manual and grinder. Currently using the Stihl 2-in-1 tool -- which is a rebranded Pferd tool. It works quite well. The 2-in-1 requires some manual leveling & alignment, but it's not hard to get knife-edge cutters on my chains. It also keeps rakers/bumpers at the right height. I consumed 4 tanks of fuel yesterday on my old Stihl 310. When fueling up for the 3rd tank, I touched up each tooth with a couple of strokes. Even in the field without a bench or vise, it only took a couple of minutes.

When I can no longer make fast and straight cuts with a chain, it goes to my local Stihl dealer for a grind. That usually means hitting a rock, or just getting into some really dirty/sandy wood that's been on the ground for years. The dealer charges based on the number of teeth on a chain. For a 16" full-comp chain it's $9 each.

A good grinder machine and a good grinding technician can do wonders for a dull chain. But if they're not slow and careful, the teeth can get too hot. And they might grind off more cutter head than is necessary.

For getting into dirty & sandy wood, a carbide-tipped chain can be an option. I have one -- Stihl's Rapid Duro chain. It works great for cutting old stumps flat to the ground. "Old" meaning 1-2 foot high stumps grandpa or great-grandpa left. These stumps can be hard as iron if the sap crystalized, or rotten and dirty if it didn't. Carbide chains are no-go for rocks -- supposedly the carbide tip just snaps off. Carbine chains also have to be sharpened with a special diamond wheel grinder. I haven't needed mine sharpened yet. I do have smaller diamond files (5.0 mm ?) which should work for touch ups. But I want to see how the grind works before I do mine own manual filing.

The Stihl 2-in-1 file only works for full-comp chains. I have a skip-tooth chain for my 25" bar, and I must hand file to sharpen it. I'm not as good free-handing a file, so I'm not yet getting knife-edge cutters on my skip-tooth chain.

Dad never sharpened his chains -- always took them to a shop to be ground when they got dull. So I probably have 8 or 9 chains for the old Stihl 310. Over time, the chain's drive links wear down -- which effectively reduces the chain's gauge. Over time, the groove in the bar wears and opens up - which effectively increases the bar's gauge. Even when we replace worn bars with new ones, old chains will eventually become side-to-side loose in the bar. I'm on my 4th bar on the Stihl 310, with the 5th one in my basement. The old chains just don't fit like they used to.

I have only 3 chains each for my Stihl 400C's 20" bar and 25" bar. And only 3 chains for my Stihl 261's 16" bar. I do expect to retire the chains faster, with fewer of them in rotation.

Also, semi-chisel chains tolerate dirty wood better than full-chisel chains. Full-chisels need to be kept sharp. Neither one plays well with rocks.

I have only ever sharpened chains with a hand file. Also lower the rakers a pretty equal amount from file experience. It does not take me long and the results speak for themselves. Got a brand new Oregon chain against old concrete, very lightly and just a light touch. Dull pretty quick. Ten minutes with the correct file and was back to cutting like new.

That's been my experience as well Paul, it'll be "ok" for the coming winter but ideal the following one.


Good info thanks fritz.

After selling off both my larger and small saw I'm down to 1 saw now, an MS261. Well plus the battery MSA200 which I actually use quite a bit for trail trimming and small stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by ridewv:
After I bought my new saw last year I decided to start being extra careful keeping it away from dirt rocks, etc. and I was successful, the original chain held up for the better part of a year. Well it had been dull the last couple outings, but still that was impressive for me.

Uncertain if you:
- used the chain without sharpening for almost a year
- used the chain for almost a year, sharpening it a few times

Excluding use by wildland firefighters and production fallers -- who push their equipment on a daily basis -- saw chains last a long time with proper maintenance. Maintenance being regular sharpening, raker filing, cleaning, and and proper oiling.

A dull chain causes the engine to work harder. A dull chain usually convinces the saw operator to push harder during the cut. The saw, the chain, and the bar all get hotter. The saw starts bogging down. The bar oiler can't keep up, and oil starts smoking. Increased heat prematurely burns the paint/finish from the bar, and discolors the outer edges of the bar to a dark gray finish. As this continues, the bar wears prematurely. The bar channel opens up, which effectively increases the gauge. The outer edges of the bar begins to wear prematurely. Older bars generally have a burr on the outer edges, which should be removed with a flat file. Older bars may have rails which are of uneven height, which promotes a cut that wanders left or right. A bar dressing tool squares the rails and promotes a straighter cut.

It's better to lightly sharpen a chain every couple of tanks of fuel, which is what production fallers generally do. If I'm in quality green wood, my semi-chisel chains can generally handle 3 tanks of fuel before a touch up with files is warranted. Full-chisel chains might make it to the third tank with sorta adequate results, but they're better off with a cutter touch up every other tank.

I am primarily felling beetle-killed pine now. Some recent dead, some around 2 years ago. For most trees the needles have fallen off and the branches are crispy. The trunk might be wet near the butt, however the top half of the trunk can be hard & brittle. Many trunks fracture upon landing. I sharpen chains often.

If the saw is throwing big chips, it's sharp. If it's throwing small chips or sawdust, it's dull.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

quote:

Originally posted by ridewv:
After I bought my new saw last year I decided to start being extra careful keeping it away from dirt rocks, etc. and I was successful, the original chain held up for the better part of a year. Well it had been dull the last couple outings, but still that was impressive for me.

Uncertain if you:
- used the chain without sharpening for almost a year
- used the chain for almost a year, sharpening it a few times

I had the saw for almost a year using it with the original chain. I don't know how much time it spent cutting? Probably cut up 3 trees about like shown, a couple much smaller ones, and two leaning, dead, pine to get them on the ground to rot. Most all the smaller trees come down with the battery saw. Yeah I can tell when the chips start getting smaller it's time to change chains and that's what I noticed as I was finishing the last time I had it out so I changed after that. If it cuts slow it'd overheat the chain and bar for sure.

I also use a stihl 2 in one. Takes less than 5 minutes to sharpen chain and set the rakers.

If it only took 10-15 minutes it'd be worth it, maybe I'll try one.

quote:

Originally posted by PeteF:
I also use a stihl 2 in one.

Me too. Get a few replacement files for it.

ridewv --- if you buy a 2-in-1 sharpener, it must be matched to your chain size.

If the saw dealer built your Stihl 261 to "normal" specs, it likely has a .325" pitch chain, with either a .050" or .063" gauge. The gauge is not important for the sharpener or the files. Round file size for a .325" pitch should be 3/16". The support rails for the 2-in-1 file sharpener in the .325" option are properly spaced to deal with the .325" chain.

The .325" chain size was developed to better utilize the lower horsepower of chainsaws with smaller engines -- like the Stihl 261, which has a 50cc engine. The .325" chain cuts a smaller channel (i.e. kerf) through the wood, and there is less steel in the chain. So in theory, such chains promote higher engine RPMs, and faster cutting.

I had my dealer build my Stihl 261 with a 3/8" pitch and .050" gauge chain. This matches the chain size of my old Stihl 310, which has a 59cc-ish engine, but the same 4hp output of the Stihl 261. As such, I can swap chains between the 261 and 310 if necessary. And I can use the same 2-in-1 sharpener on my 261, 310, and 400 saws. Stihl's 3/8" chains use 13/64" round files. Note that Oregon 3/8" chains use 7/32" round files -- should you own such Oregon chains.

There are 2 round files in the Stihl 2-in-1 sharpener, but Stihl sells round files in packs of 3. Um...OK.

quote:

Originally posted by ridewv:

I'm hoping this wood will be seasoned come winter but being that it was live it may not be completely dried. What's your experience?

Every year I cut my wood for the winter during the month of March. I generally cut around 2-3 cords. If the wood is split reasonably small and stacked so air can circulate all around it...you will be fine.

I'd sure like to find a guy with an Easton made splitter in my vicinity.

I'd offer to split for a few hours a day,if he would do all the bucking with the chain saw.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
ridewv --- if you buy a 2-in-1 sharpener, it must be matched to your chain size.

If the saw dealer built your Stihl 261 to "normal" specs, it likely has a .325" pitch chain, with either a .050" or .063" gauge.
I had my dealer build my Stihl 261 with a 3/8" pitch and .050" gauge chain. This matches the chain size of my old Stihl 310, which has a 59cc-ish engine, but the same 4hp output of the Stihl 261. As such, I can swap chains between the 261 and 310 if necessary. And I can use the same 2-in-1 sharpener on my 261, 310, and 400 saws. Stihl's 3/8" chains use 13/64" round files. Note that Oregon 3/8" chains use 7/32" round files -- should you own such Oregon chains.

That's good to know because yes the saw came with a 20" .325 chain and I added an 18" bar and a couple .325 18" chains. I also have 2 new 20", 3/8 pitch Oregon chains which I haven't used yet.

quote:

Every year I cut my wood for the winter during the month of March. I generally cut around 2-3 cords. If the wood is split reasonably small and stacked so air can circulate all around it...you will be fine.

Good to know, thanks. I've already started splitting and loose stacking the oak fall down so hopefully it'll be good come winter.
My problem is not enough covered places to stash wood but I think I'm going to add a 14' x 30' carport which'll also provide 44 lineal feet more of firewood storage.

quote:

Originally posted by ridewv:
That's good to know because yes the saw came with a 20" .325 chain and I added an 18" bar and a couple .325 18" chains. I also have 2 new 20", 3/8 pitch Oregon chains which I haven't used yet.

Different drive sprockets are required for .325" and 3/8" chains. Drive sprockets don't cost much and they are relatively easy to change with a screwdriver and needle nose plyers. But I don't advise changing them in the field. The drive sprocket's retaining clip would be almost impossible to find if dropped on the ground. Without this retaining clip (or spares), a Stihl saw is dead in the water.

Operating a 3/8" chain with a .325" drive sprocket, or a .325" chain with a 3/8" sprocket, will damage both the sprocket and the chain. Might damage the bar, too. Trying to power through the problem might damage the clutch, and even the engine. If a saw shop sold you the 3/8" Oregon chain -- knowing that you have a .325" chain on a 261 -- then you need to find a different saw shop. If you bought the 3/8" Oregon chain on your own, see if you can return it for a .325" chain.
****
On to chain gauge. You likely are fine with the Stihl 18" and 20" chain/bar combo, as the gauges should be matched. There's no guarantee with the Oregon. An .050" gauge chain will run on a .063" bar, but it will wobble, produce uneven cuts, and will wear the bar prematurely. A new .063" gauge chain won't fit into the groove of a new .050" bar. Might fit in a worn one, however. Installing a too large gauge chain in a bar will result in excess friction. The chain might freeze up, it might producing galling. Trying to power through this problem might damage the clutch/drive system, or might damage the engine.

****
On a different note -- bar length. The Stihl 261 has a small engine for a professional-grade saw. The 261 is light and has nice power for it's size, but it's still a 50cc engine. Longer bars mean heavier chains (i.e. more links) and more friction between chain and bar. This drag bogs engines down a bit. The more cutting teeth in the wood, the load on the engine. Modern Stihl pro saws (261 through 500) are built to run at high RPMs and high chain speed to cut the best. IMO at 20" bar fully buried in wood is a bit too much load on a 261 for best performance. Now felling/bucking a 8-16" log is just fine with the 261, but 18-20" logs require feathering to pressure of the cutters so that RPMs stay high. This is why I use only a 16" bars on my Stihl 310 and 261 -- I regularly have the entire bar length in wood.

As saws bog down with lower RPMs, bar oiling requirements increase -- especially with longer bars. The bigger pro saws (Stihl 462 through 881) have higher output oilers to deal with this. The smaller pro saws (261 through 400) do have oiler adjustment rate screws, but not the higher out oilers. Thus, when a 261 is bogging down with an 18" or 20" bar fully buried, almost certainly there is inadequate oil making it all the way to the primary cutting area -- the bottom part of the bar.

Now if you rarely bury the full bar in wood, or if you back off on pressure when doing so, then the 261 will be fine with 18-20" bars. Also understand that having a dull (even slightly dull) chain makes this issue worse.

Great explanations Fritz!
I ordered the Oregon 3/8" chains myself for a larger Echo saw I actually need to sell. They're still in their packages in a bag so I'll get them out and compare closely with what came on the saw. I was actually wondering about the drive sprocket so I'm glad to know they are different for sure, thanks. I'll just include those chains with the Echo rather than mess with changing sprockets back and forth on this Stihl.

As far as the 20" bar on the 261, that's the way both that I looked at (at two different dealers) were set up. I also bought an 18" bar and two 18" chains along with an extra 20" at the time of purchase. I very seldom cut using the full length of the bar, and when I do it's generally only the 1 or 2 cuts at the base of a tree. What I DO like about longer bars is being able to reach a bit farther easier, and not having to bend over quite as far. My previous mc250 saw was slightly smaller and had 16 and 18" bars and I noticed then that the 18" bar made it a little easier to use yet could still cut a full 16" as well as the 16" bar.