Just returned from a long weekend in Phoenix and brought back some of my dad's guns with me. Traveling with firearms through Phoenix Sky Harbor is still a pain in the ass, but less intrusive than it was just a couple foyers ago.

The airline gives a you a declaration card to sign and enclose in your bag containing your firearms and instructs you to lock after placing the card. They then call the TSA and an agent meets you at the ticket counter and escorts you and your firearms down into the basement and their inspection room. They then swab the inside of the case. TSA then calls baggage handlers from the airline to come take your bag for their inspection room to your flight.

Yesterday it looked like a retirement jobs program. Two elderly men who lifting together could not lift my rifle case onto the table. I had to do it for them. Then they were annoyed that I had actually locked my case and it did not have TSA locks on it. They were even more annoyed when I refused to leave their inspection room before my case had been taken by the airline. When they asked why I politely told them that since they were incapable of lifting my case, I wanted to remain there until the airline came to take possession just in case there were any issues in moving it.

Still a pain in the ass but more like an annoyance compared to a couple of years ago. Then it was inspections of all firearms to make sure they were unloaded, and a demand to record all serial numbers. I strongly objected to both and had to talk with a supervisor to get through without serial numbers being recorded. It just blew me away then of the ignorance of their own policies and the law by their own employees. Even more frightening were the people who just went along with it without questioning.

Sky Harbor isn't bad. At least you got to go into the inspection room.

I was threatened (by TSA) with arrest by several of Palm Beach's finest (who weren't having any of it, BTW) when I refused to give my key to TSA when they already had my bag in their inspection area at PBI.

Eventually agreed to give it to one of the deputies on the condition he agree to observe the inspection and return the key directly to me once they had locked everything back up.

TSA supervisor lady was pissed and asked why I wouldn't just give it to her guys and instead "made her call the cops on me". I told her that their boss was at least elected whereas she was a Federal drone on a power trip who obviously didn't know her own regs - also, I assumed her guys would steal something.

A couple of the deputies had to stifle laughter and at least one just walked away. They were good guys, but PBI sucks.

-Rob

quote:

TSA supervisor lady was pissed and asked why I wouldn't just give it to her guys and instead "made her call the cops on me". I told her that their boss was at least elected whereas she was a Federal drone on a power trip who obviously didn't know her own regs - also, I assumed her guys would steal something.

Wondered about that with the Key, on the TSA web page regarding Firearms travel the following says:

quote:

For example, if an individual has a firearm in accessible baggage and ammunition in his/her pocket, or any combination where the individual has access to both, the firearm is considered "loaded" for purposes of assessing a civil penalty. Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock unless TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations.

Link

At my age, I'm pretty sure that there is no airline travel in my future, but if there were, I would opt for a locked case with biometric (fingerprint) lock in order to insure that my presence was required to open the case for inspection.

Per HRK's post, TSA changed the wording a few years ago, to include unless TSA personnel request the key.

I found that out the hard way because before that language change you were never to give up the key to anyone including TSA - no matter what.

My option for that flight was to leave my checked luggage, and locked gun case therein, behind at my departure airport, or, give them the key. Hesitantly I complied but I filed a complaint thereafter with TSA. It went up the ladder at TSA and then they shared the new language with me.

Per V-Tails post, I've also used a biometric case but it was always flagged for inspection. TSA could not open it, it contained electronic circuity, and my guess is they wanted to make sure it was just a gun and case and not a bomb.

A few times the TSA agent would come to the airline counter so I could open the biometric case for their inspection. Later they told me they did not have time to go to the airline counter anymore plus I was not allowed to go downstairs to their inspection station. Hence by default, this was the very last time TSA would come upstairs and don't use a biometric case anymore.

My personal recommendation is to bring a printed copy of your chosen airlines gun/ammo policy, AND, a copy of the TSA rules. Then if you encounter an overbearing airline/TSA agent, you can politely hand them a copy to "remind them" of their actual rules/procedures.

I remember talking to a ticket person at sky harbor, a sky harbor employee and a T.S.A. employee prior to caring two pistols down there to fly.

When laid the two locked cases on the counter the person checking them in said
"They don't know what they are talking about"

And they got me through in about nine minutes.

my TSA nightmare was Orlando airport. Almost missed my flight because of them. Their rudeness was completely uncalled for.

The only time I ever had luggage get lost was flying home out of Sky Harbor, and there was a gun in in my suitcase at that. Lady at the customer service counter at SeaTac was really sweet about everything when my bag didn’t arrive. Ya’ll should’ve seen the look on her face when I calmly told her what was in the suitcase that they better hope didn’t go missing. I was coming home to a dying cat who they were keeping alive for me to say goodbye to, or I would’ve absolutely ruined some people’s day. As it was, they had it delivered to my doorstep six or seven hours later, but in the process of getting it back, it came out that some TSA clown at Sky Harbor didn’t get my suitcase loaded onto the baggage cart in time to make my flight. I was hours early, too.

Yeah, it sounds like there may be a problem there. This was last June, so it’s not like it was in the distant past. Probably the same people working there, for the most part. I did get to watch them check my bag and my gun, but things obviously did not go right after I left that little room.

quote:

Originally posted by h2oys:
Per HRK's post, TSA changed the wording a few years ago, to include unless TSA personnel request the key.

I found that out the hard way because before that language change you were never to give up the key to anyone including TSA - no matter what.

They changed the language on their website, but the CFR read the same last I checked. Between the actual federal regulations and TSA's website, guess which one I don't give a rat's ass about.

When and if the CFR language is updated, I'll adjust my attitude accordingly.

ETA: Here's the current version - as of 4/24/23.

49 CFR 1544.203(f)

(f) Firearms in checked baggage. No aircraft operator may knowingly permit any person to transport in checked baggage:

(1) Any loaded firearm(s).

(2) Any unloaded firearm(s) unless—

(i) The passenger declares to the aircraft operator, either orally or in writing before checking the baggage that any firearm carried in the baggage is unloaded;

(ii) The firearm is carried in a hard-sided container;

(iii) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the individual checking the baggage retains the key or combination; and

(iv) The checked baggage containing the firearm is carried in an area that is inaccessible to passengers, and is not carried in the flightcrew compartment,.

-Rob

^^^ CFR = ?

I'm guessing what your saying is CFR is the actual legal language and TSA's website is a loose interpretation thereof?

If that is the case, I can only see still losing the argument at the airport with the TSA personnel staff that day. You want to get on the plane, but, they won't let you because they view it differently.

Kind of like my story wherein I was told I could:

1) leave my checked luggage with my gun case inside behind at my departure airport and get on the plane, or,
2) take my luggage, go home, & miss my flight, or,
3) comply

Do you think any TSA agent would take the time to read and understand the CFR? If not, perhaps the best thing is to send the CFR to a head person at TSA so they update their website. In other words, preventive action versus reactive action/inaction.

quote:

My personal recommendation is to bring a printed copy of your chosen airlines gun/ammo policy, AND, a copy of the TSA rules. Then if you encounter an overbearing airline/TSA agent, you can politely hand them a copy to "remind them" of their actual rules/procedures.

And thereafter resign yourself to forever being 'selected' for additional screening every time you fly.

You may win that particular battle, but you'll certainly lose the ensuing war.

^^^ Definitely if you're dealing with an ego driven agent - whether for the airline or the TSA. You just need to do a quick read of the person your dealing with at the time.

Most airline reps, or TSA agents, I've run into simply did not their own rules and just repeated what they were told or what they thought was the rule.

When they saw their printed actual rules, note I make sure to print with the headers/footers on so the website address shows up, they were happy to be educated. And I don't mean that sarcastically as they were genuinely appreciative.

So far I've managed to avoid the cavity search as I definitely understand your reference to the battle and war and hopefully continue to pick the right time/person.

'Reading the room' is definitely the key.

have flown and checked firearms many times and never had a problem in either direction.... will be doing it again in three weeks... so, we'll see. I've found going through the TSA boarding check more of a problem. Well, one time at check in the Delta clerk was training a newbie and that was a bit of a pain.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Blume9mm,

I fly weekly with firearms - many - and out of O'hare to boot. Have yet to encounter a problem with TSA. the case goes through their scanner and then is taken by the airline. I hope to continue this record of ease!

quote:

Originally posted by sigseller2000:
I fly weekly with firearms - many - and out of O'hare to boot. Have yet to encounter a problem with TSA. the case goes through their scanner and then is taken by the airline. I hope to continue this record of ease!

Quite interesting.

While we don't fly a great deal, we fly out of Lambert in St. Louis. Terminal A is for the main airlines and Terminal B is for Southwest.

Regardless of the terminal, after declaring the firearm at the airline counter, the agent tells me to wait at least 20 minutes before heading to the security line. That way in case TSA wants to inspect my firearm, I won't have to leave the secured gate area, come back out for the firearm inspection, and then to get back in line to go through security again.

Probably 50% of the time TSA wanted to inspect my firearm. Which is usually a handgun, flag inside the barrel and protruding from the partially open slide, ammo in the original box, empty magazines, and lastly, my pocket knife.

Ordinarily they just want to look at the gun and for some reason sometimes they handle it. Either way they seem to be more interested in the biometric case because as I said in a previous post, they might not be used to seeing them and are suspicious it's something other than a case and gun.

For my own benefit, I take a picture of the open case to show everything is arranged, just in case something disappears and so I can tell if they handled/moved items. Not sure if it would really prove anything is something was amiss, but, at least I know what may have transpired while it was out of my control.

I've decided to skip the biometric case and now just use a regular key locked case to reduce the inspections.

Sigseller2000, or any of you; What percentage of the time have you been called out to open your case or supply your key so they can inspect it?

I was asked every time until a TSA agent told me to stop packing my computer, tablet, associated cords and power supplies in the case with my guns. I had no trouble the three times after that, but those where over 5 years ago.

quote:

Definitely if you're dealing with an ego driven agent - whether for the airline or the TSA. You just need to do a quick read of the person your dealing with at the time.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
There are no such things as quick reads. You can certainly observe his/her behavior with other people. Unless you are dealing with customs the run of the mill inspector it is a waste of time. You can assume you are not dealing with a genius and with someone who likes to follow the rules. I have known quite a few customs agents and as a rule they are competent and intelligent.

It has been probably around 10 years since I flew in/out of Phoenix. I went for a SigForum shoot and had several pistols, NFA rifles, and toys. I don’t remember it being too bad but maybe I have suppressed the memory…lol! What I DO REMEMBER a was being scared as hell when I landed in Phoenix and was waiting at baggage claim for my rifle cases. My bags came, but not the rifles. I was freaking out!!! I went to the airline and they took me to the “oversized” luggage area and there they were….whew!!!!!

When I fly with firearms, I stay with them while they get inspected.

Why?

I flew out of an Oregon airport. When I got home, there was a notice that my luggage was randomly selected for a search.

There were items in my luggage that wasn't mine.

I filed a report with the TSA, their response?

"Occasionally that happens."