quote:

Originally posted by rburg:

So I asked the manager, who did get himself involved, what he was going to do. He basically had 2 choices, call a locksmith or give us a loaner. He didn't like either. So being the loudmouth I am I yelled so other customers could hear (he didn't like that) "why would anyone buy from a dealer that pulls this kind of crap? Yeah, my wife was crying because she wanted a new car. But in a moment of sanity I just suggested we go sit in the waiting area for a while.
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Had this happen and I told them to pull my car around as I was leaving. They knew the car was for my wife so they talked to her and sent her out with their new better deal. The second time they did this I called the sheriff dept. they had our car pulled around front before the Deputy made it to the front door of the building.

Car dealers are not the sharpest tools in the drawer.

New Nissan Murano AWD in 2010. Nice vehicle, comfortable, reliable. In 2015 I was in for regular service, service rep tells me the front brake pads are worn below specs and rear brake pads are close. Took it to my regular shop (alignments, brakes, etc), inspected, reported both front and rear were well over minimums.

2016, at another regular service they bring me my air intake filter and cabin air filter, both quite dirty, recommend replacement. Told them to go ahead with new filters. My bill showed the filters (dealer prices, of course) plus $25 labor for each filter change ($50 total). Think about it for a minute; if I told them "NO" they would have to put the old filters back in at no charge. Complained to the service manager, no joy. Nasty email to the dealer, no reply.

2018 purchased a new Nissan Titan 4WD truck, same dealer. Last time I went in for regular service I requested a tire rotation. Picked up the truck, same 4 wheels in the same positions as before (paint scratches on a couple that are easily identifiable, all lug nuts still had undisturbed road grime, obviously no rotation). Contested the labor charge, they yanked me around for a half-hour then deducted the charge. Nasty email to dealer, no response. Nasty email to Nissan Customer Service, no response. 3 phone calls, no replies.

Three weeks later I called the sales rep, from whom I purchased 4 new Nissans over the past 15 years, told him why he had lost a customer. Over the next several days I received calls from the service manager, the dealership owner, Nissan USA rep, all seeming to be ready to bend over and grab their ankles.

I turned down all of their "gimme" offers, told them I was just making a courtesy call to a good sales rep to explain why he lost a repeat customer, I didn't want anything and they would never see another day with my shadow on their property. I can buy anything I want. We can just as easily be a 2 Toyota household, or 2 GM, or 2 Ford, or 2 VW.

The fun part now is that I have a pre-paid service plan with 5 oil-filter changes remaining so I get to see the looks on the service rep's face and service manager's face whenever I go in for service. The sales rep (who is a really good guy) ran into me, took me in to the dealership owner, introduced me as "the guy with the 800 FICO score and can write a check for anything on the lot, the one who bought 4 new vehicles and will never spend another dime there".

Priceless.

By the way, I love the two Nissans we are currently driving. I won't buy any more because the dealer has lost my trust over petty little crap, but I won't complain about Nissan quality.

When it comes to car dealers I believe in the golden rule; I have the gold so I make the rules.

quote:

2018 purchased a new Nissan Titan 4WD truck, same dealer. Last time I went in for regular service I requested a tire rotation. Picked up the truck, same 4 wheels in the same positions as before (paint scratches on a couple that are easily identifiable, all lug nuts still had undisturbed road grime, obviously no rotation).

I had a Ford dealer pull this same shit on me. I always chalk the tires before service. Got free oil changes for the rest of the lease term on that one.

I think the days of a business caring about customers is looooooong gone. The focus is on new customers. No one care about existing customers.

quote:

Originally posted by oldbill123:
I think the days of a business caring about customers is looooooong gone. The focus is on new customers. No one care about existing customers.

I was always taught it is cheaper to retain the customer you have, than it is to get new ones.

quote:

Originally posted by oldbill123:
I think the days of a business caring about customers is looooooong gone.

I'm sure there are studies on it. I guess that they can keep us no matter how badly we're treated. They're wrong.

We had a Pontiac dealer down by the bridge (over the river and into town.) One of my co-workers called me one evening and asked if I'd pick him up on my way to work, he had to drop his car off for service. Again. So being a good guy, I said sure. Bright and early, there I was. But he said wait, he had to tape his hood (?). OK, me with no idea what it was all about. So a minute later here came Nick, smiling. And away we went to work.

at about 5 we both got up and went for the drive back. It really wasn't out of my way at all. Lucky he didn't kill the service manager. Or the "mechanic". Before lemon law days. He wanted to call the police and have them arrested for theft or robbery. He had to pay to get his keys, and the piece of tape was still in place, meaning they hadn't even opened the hood. But they charged him for the service. Not really a warranty type of claim, just plain theft. Its how dealers get a bad name. Not bad service, just crooked tactics.

Toyota lost me. Traded it in this morning on a Subaru. I have 4 kids and a wife and none of my money will ever go to Toyota again.

I have had health issues this last year and honestly taking the low road and dumping this car felt like the right choice over battling those dumbasses. I just didn’t feel up to it.

On the other hand the bigger engine in this Crosstrek is very nice. The lane assist is already way better than Toyota’s version. Plus, driving up my big hill in the Toyota was always disconcerting to feel and hear the auto transmission search for the right gear. The CVT with a better hp to weight ration makes it a non event.

Still, kind of wish I had fought them. Oh well.

quote:

Originally posted by TomV:
I was always taught it is cheaper to retain the customer you have, than it is to get new ones.

That's what I thought too. I mean, if a customer already has your product, you don't have to change their mind to switch to your product. But if they're using something else, getting them to switch would be more difficult as people are creatures of habit.

And why service tries to screw people over is way beyond me. Service makes more money than sales. You'd think a dealer would want to have a good service department so customers keep coming back. You only buy a car every 4+ years, if that, but service can be multiple times a year. If I were the GM of a dealership, I'd want them selling as many cars as painlessly as possible so those customers can bring them in for service where we are really making money.

That was the old ways. The new way is manage by the numbers. New customers are numbers. Numbers can be manipulated even falsified. Makes the reports look good and everyone gets a bonus. Keeps the stock price up.
I was taught ethics. Never saw it in practice. Company paid for and required the ethics course. It has been this way in large business for at least 10 years.
If you ever see an ATT tech out and about, ask them about MSOC
Trust no one.
Especially me

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Toyota lost me. Traded it in this morning on a Subaru. I have 4 kids and a wife and none of my money will ever go to Toyota again.

I have had health issues this last year and honestly taking the low road and dumping this car felt like the right choice over battling those dumbasses. I just didn’t feel up to it.

On the other hand the bigger engine in this Crosstrek is very nice. The lane assist is already way better than Toyota’s version. Plus, driving up my big hill in the Toyota was always disconcerting to feel and hear the auto transmission search for the right gear. The CVT with a better hp to weight ration makes it a non event.

Still, kind of wish I had fought them. Oh well.

Glad you rid yourself of the problem, and like the crosstrek.
I wish you would have called corporate. I think you would have been surprised at how well they get the dealers in line.

When I had enough miles I stopped using the Toyota dealership service department, except for oil changes. Can't beat their price on an oil and filter change. Quick and convenient, I was happy getting my oil changes there.

I have an excellent independent garage do all my vehicle maintenance and repairs now, on both the Camry and my old Chevy truck.

The independent garage gave my Camry a major service at roughly 100,000 miles. New plugs, filters, transmission service, cooling system service, front and rear brakes, etc. Tip Top Shape. They ran out of time to get the oil change done and I needed the car back.

A few days later I call the Toyota dealer and get an appointment for the oil change. After arriving, I told them just change the oil and filter, lube it, do not rotate the tires or wash it. I told the service rep I was all caught up on maintenance, no need to look that stuff over.

I'm in the lounge waiting when the service advisor comes up and tells me I need a lot of maintenance.

Really? I said. I just had everything done at my independent garage. Everything is done.

Service advisor handed me a print out and told me their technician/mechanic/asshole had checked everything on the list and handed me an estimate for something like $1,500 bucks.

I was pissed. I reminded the service advisor that I just told you I had all my maintenance caught up.

I was so pissed off, in fact, that I made sure I had those pieces of paper from the service advisor in my hand.

I went down the hallway to the General Managers office. Glass walls, door shut, I see him in there with several suits.

I was so pissed I just opened the door anyway, and the GM looked up at me when I said I see you have vistors, but you better talk to me NOW before I call the TV Station in your corner reporter and call Toyota Corporate.

I told him just what I typed above. He asked to see the paperwork in my hand. I told him I would but I want them back, no exceptions, promise me in front of these other Suits.

I did give the GM a look at my receipt from the independent garage. He just flat out turned pale then red in the face.

He did look at them while I told him I already had all the maintenance done in the other day at my independent garage.

So what happened was I got a call from the GM the next day that he investigated it, and then fired the mechanic/tech/asshole on the spot. He said the tech/mechanic/asshole admitted he never looked at my car in depth, he just went by the odometer reading against the maintenance schedule. Bad move fool! Got your ass fired.

Then the Service Manager called me and told me the same thing.

Heads were rolling, to also include the service writer who can't pay attention and retain info and use it in an intelligent manner.

One of the sales guys I know there called me a couple of days later and asked me what the hell happened, because hell had broken loose in the building and two people were fired. Management was not talking about why or what happened.

Bottom line, I do not like to see people get fired. I hate to say this, but sometimes it is necessary.

There's nothing wrong with Toyota. The problem is with People. People get lazy, people are dishonest, people screw up.
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quote:

Originally posted by bigeinkcmo:
rurb - I had the Phil Long Ford in the Denver metro pull that BS on me.

Phil Long was such a lovely dealership to deal with. NOT! Bought a new 1999 F-150 from them on a special factory order and their finance guy hid a life insurance policy in the financing paperwork. Told him take it out or they could keep the truck. That was after threatening to walk out if they continued to push their extended warranty.

Then after taking delivery of the truck discovered the driver's side door had a fitment issue. The top edge was ground down and bare metal left exposed. Service manager wanted to repaint the whole door. I had to argue with him just to repair the affected area and feather the paint in. On a dark blue metallic truck with paint that color shifted it never would've matched.

Not all dealerships (of any manufacturer) are of the same quality. You needed to switch to a different one...

I work for Toyota. A reputable dealer would have bent over backwards to get your new car working as it should and you would of had a loaner immediately and kept it until yours was fixed with zero issue. I know, i see it every day.

I hear you guys. Two years ago and hopefully a year from now I would have fought them. I would have won. It clearly was their problem and it was getting worse. I know I took the low road but when my wife said to call them again I just didn’t have the fight in me. (I save that fight for arguments here about important stuff like guns and ammo lol).

I knew I would like the Crosstrek because I still love the 17 I handed down to my son. The new engine is sweet. No one will confuse it with a sports car but it feels like what should be the standard motor. When they do drop in the WRX style turbo this car will be the WRX killer. I wonder if that’s why they haven’t done it already.

I will miss sending smarmy videos each time the tailgate failed again though. Lol

I just came across this thread. Gotta say it makes me glad I didn't spring for the Rav 4 almost 2 years ago. I ended up with the Crosstrek also because the Rav with 4 wheel drive (go figure it wasn't standard on something with "4" in the name) was too pricey.

2006 bought a new Toyota Camary from local dealer. About 6 months later dead battery. Jumped started and driven directly to dealer where battery replaced. Within a couple of days the alarm system would go ballistic on its own while either while driving or parked. Service manager said it was something we were doing and nothing wrong with car. On its 7th trip to dealership and parked on the lot when our salesman and dealership owner were on back porch for a cigarette smoke and witnessed the alarm going ballistic and our salesman explained our trouble to the dealership owner with the service dept that we were getting ready it invoke the "lemon law". The owner immedately went to the service manager, service writer, and mechanics and told them to get car FIXED NOW or they would be fired. Guess what---- it was fixed in two days because they had to replace some modem buried up under and inside of dash. Even after this bought 2 more cars from this salesmen because he was able to make sure we were taken care of. We sort of became brothers from different mothers after this. ........................................ drill sgt.

Full disclosure. The Toyota itself was nice. The dealership sucked donkey balls.

I can review the RAV4 pretty simply. I had the two tone paint, lunar ice gray with white pillars and roof. The paint was outstanding. Adventure trim package. The new taco like styling looked good. The interior was well thought out (mostly) and Toyota makes good looking plastic and pleather. Their adaptive cruise control was very good. Their lane assist was not. Engine is underpowered for size. This one needs a power infusion as well. Not to start CVT argument again but I have trouble imagining why the auto in this Toyota is preferred to a good CVT (like a Subaru). I would have driven this car to death and I think it would have been crazy reliable. The tailgate issue should, I repeat should, have been a simple matter to fix. If you have a good dealership I would recommend this particular car if you can stand my caveats. Btw, the thumbs up on interior (mostly) was due to them putting gas tank door release and hood release side by side by knee panel. I never could get the hang of which was which without getting out and looking. Ugh. You might be smarter than me though and this could be a nonissue. Lol

Overall RAV4 gets a solid 7.5 maybe 8 overall. Good vehicle and looked good. Bigger engine would make it a 8.5 or more.

quote:

Originally posted by SR:

quote:

Originally posted by shovelhead:
Just invoking the use of the Lemon Law without the caveat that you want to keep it puts the whole thing into their lap including involving the factory rep right away.

Let them sweat a bit, don't agree to anything. Let them come to the table with a solution and possible something to sweeten the pot so to speak for your inconvenience.

This is FAR from my experience with a major car company. I got a call after responding to a satisfaction survey. Later in the process I sent a certified mail saying we were approaching the NC threshold triggering lemon law - didn't get a call, didn't get a suggestion - NOTHING from the manufacturer. Oh, except a certified mail response saying sorry - trigger for lemon law not met (basically pound sand).

The local dealer was great. Kept working the problem. We were just about ready to file suit (nice to have an attorney in the family) when the dealer got the problem to repeat. Was fixed the next day - had to wait on a part.

SR, my experience comes from working in Fixed Operations aka the departments excluding sales in dealerships, 47 years in General Motors franchised stores. When the factory gets involved things start to happen. My experience was mainly parts related but for a time in the 1980's I was a service and body shop manager at a five line dealership.

You get to see up close and personal that there are some customers that you will never satisfy but most with a complaint have a valid reason.

Sometimes the dealerships would try to isolate a problem but were unable to with the resources available, that is when we or they should have called in our factory reps.

Or the times we could not get parts. It was not unheard of waiting in excess of a month for parts pre-pandemic. My wife's previous car had a GM replacement hood installed due to a crash. Warranty on replacement metal was limited lifetime, I had one on order for eight months, we finally sold the car with no resolution as there were none available in the country. And I invoked every level I could to get a hood including SPRINT. That is a GM program that locates a dealership that has one of those in inventory and is willing to sell it. I had SPAC,SPRINT and SWAT, all anacronyms in the GM system for assistance up and above regular channels and still could not get one.

Pedropcola,

Best of luck with your Subie. Have not heard many negatives about them.

I know what you are saying about dealerships. It's pretty bad when I have to take my Jeeps to the local Ford dealership for oil changes as one of the three FCA dealers here cannot even do an oil change correctly. Of the last four times I went in taking both our Jeeps they screwed up three times. Had to return twice, caught one mistake while I was onsite. And the last time when I took my wife's Liberty it the service advisor would not even tell me "I'm sorry for your inconvenience" nor bring the keys to me, instead he had the lube tech bring me the keys with "It was just seeping oil" which it wasn't, the drip was so small it took a day for it to seep enough down the filter trough to again drip on the driveway albeit very small drip like the first time. Then COVID lockdowns started, had to wait a couple of months to get it in to have it changed, that time at the Ford dealership.

Second dealership, service department was ok but their sales department was over the top pressure. Constant emails and snail mails. When the phone calls started I specifically requested to stop. They did not. I threatened to file a do not call case, they finally stopped after my second demand. Since then the dealership has changed hands, so far no sales calls from them. Third store I only bought parts, may still try them in the future.