I guess the bottom line is they are going to get you one way or another.

I ended up installing a small 4 gallon electric water heater in line from our on demand gas one to our kitchen to keep from having to wait a minute or more for hot water at the sink... (15ft away from the on demand unit). I then ordered through Amazon a meter to see how much electricity this small unit is going to cost me over a month. At 11 cents a Kilowatt it looks like just less than $3.50 over 30 days...

But I had to go back and look at my electric bill to figure out they are charging me 11 cents a kilowatt hour.... Of course there are other items added on to the bill.. like "Facility Charge" and "Municipal Charge". But the one that gets me is the "Fixed Monthly Leaf 50C Charge"?

I just spent 10 minutes on line trying to figure this one out and can't even come close.. Now it is only 72 cents at least on my last bill... but you would think just googling it would cause something to pop up... I get all kinds of links to Duke Energy but when I go there and read the closest I can come up with is that at some time they inserted "Leaf #50" in with the bills and this explained it all..

I have to deal with Duke Energy on right of way issues. They are the worst energy company I have ever delt with.

“Fees” and “charges” are how all these utilities get to raise prices without getting in trouble for it from state regulators.

I’m pretty sure it’s the same across the country but here in Pennsylvania when our utilities want to raise their regular rates, they have to go to the Pennsylvania Utility Commission and basically ask permission and what the game is is they always ask for a number far higher, knowing they are only going to be granted about 50% of that.

So if they are looking for a 8% rate increase, they’ll go to the PUC and ask for something like 16-20%

The utility gets their rate increase and the PUC looks like they “did something” by saying no to 20%

quote:

Leaf #50

Look at Leaf 50c. Looks like Solar Energy Research

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
I’m pretty sure it’s the same across the country but here in Pennsylvania when our utilities want to raise their regular rates, they have to go to the Pennsylvania Utility Commission and basically ask permission and what the game is is they always ask for a number far higher, knowing they are only going to be granted about 50% of that.

So if they are looking for a 8% rate increase, they’ll go to the PUC and ask for something like 16-20%

The utility gets their rate increase and the PUC looks like they “did something” by saying no to 20%

Well, here in NH, Eversource got every bit of the rate increase they proposed back in August to the New Hampshire Public Utilities Commission...112% Increase!

I cut a supersized load of Oak firewood today. It’s my way of fighting back over the high electric & gas bills.

I relish the ‘redneck’ in me as I transport the wood home.

I don't bother looking a the fees. Just cost/kWh nothing else matters, can't change the fees. Luckily I have a reasonable cost it is up, but still not crazy. Natural gas now... Don't get me started there.

I fought my way through Duke Energies web page and after filling out all kinds of information. They wanted the last 4 digits of my SS# but amazingly when I just made something up it still went through. So, I asked them what exactly Leaf 50C was and the is the reply I got:

"Dear Valued Customer:

Thank you for your online inquiry. We are happy to assist. The cost of fuel, the variable environmental cost, avoided capacity cost of the Public Utilities Regulatory Policies Act of 1978 (“PURPA”) purchased power, and Distributed Energy Resource Program (“DERP”) cost is incorporated as a part of, and will apply to all service supplied under, this Schedule. Additionally, the Distributed Energy Resource Program Fixed Monthly Leaf 50 C charge shall be added to the monthly bill for each agreement for service under this schedule as outlined on Leaf 50 C."

The Buddhist part of me realizes that one day I will reach 'enlightenment' and actually be able to understand this.

I speak some bureaucratese.

I translate it as "any increases in cost we encounter will be passed along with our customary administrative costs for billing you and added to your monthly bill.

"Temporary surcharge for unexpected expenses in supplying you with power." would have worked for me... even knowing the "temporary" is a joke.

I zoned out at PURPA DERP DERP.

Just curious, but has you water bill gone down?

Not as bad as the fee my town tacked onto everyone's water bill. They added a $75 infrastructure fee to pay for upgrades to water mains. As if my taxes aren't high enough. So now I get a free that's almost double my $40 water bill.

It is infuriating. I’m looking for land right now to live the rest of my working life and retirement. I’m going to engineer these fuckers out of my life. Well, solar, windmill, generator, batteries, the whole 9. I’m going to plant what I can, and have chickens just for the morning eggs. I’ll still be stuck paying ISP and cell monthly but that’s where I want it to stop. It’s getting old with the ever increasing fees and nickel and dime shit. I have panels now and trust me it saves money. But we don’t have net metering in my state and my favorite is when my kwh plan (fucking contract) comes up for renewal. They make me pay .11, .15, whatever kwh charge. Then they pay me less than that for my power I put on the grid. Mother fuckers always make sure they are getting the better deal. I’m gonna be Uncle Owen when I move. “I’m shutting the power down.” I’ll rise and set with the sun. As long as there is sun or wind I’ll have power. I’ll store what I can and have a Generac on hand and gas to power it. Part of me wants to do a big solar array and have a few windmills and be my own power company. That couple out there living out of a Sprinter van, I totally get.

I’m pretty efficient on water and the monthly fees and surcharges on the monthly water bill are just as infuriating. The surcharges and set monthly fees are like I have a family 5 living here but it’s just me. More socialism. Should be giving discounts to those who are efficient and use less. Can’t have that.

quote:

Then they pay me less than that for my power I put on the grid.

Why should a power company have to pay a supplier, meaning someone who sells power back from private solar, more than they pay to generate power.

What we pay as customers is the full retail rate, that's not what it costs them to make the power, they should not have to pay $ for $ back as a kick back for buying solar from consumers, that just raises the cost of power for everyone.

Do get the frustration, we've looked at Solar, and being in a conservative run state the government thievery of taking money from taxpayers to give to those who want solar on their homes isn't going to happen here, like in a D state. So payback is double the times you'll hear from folks behind the lines in Blue states.

In FL by law we have to sell back to the power company, we can't sell it on the open market to the highest bidder. That I'd like to see changed where we can participate into a power exchange and let the market determine the price.

If power in MA is $.20 kwh, then I should be able to resell my excess to them for double the amount I'd get here in a free market, but alias, the power company cartel is strong...

IF you want to go off grid a battery wall to store power is necessary, and for many homes, it can cost as much as the solar panel system.

I like your plan, just be sure to have good rechargeable storage system for rainy cloudy windless days...

quote:

Originally posted by ragman:
I have to deal with Duke Energy on right of way issues. They are the worst energy company I have ever delt with.

They love going further into your property than they’re authorized. Once they were about to clear cut a stand of trees on my parents property that were way beyond where they had a right to cut. My dad finally had to call the sheriff and report them for trespassing. Then when he told the Duke people he called the sheriff they got mad and started to cut anyway. He basically brandished a gun to hold them off til the deputy made them leave. This was back in the 80s and I’ve seen nothing since that makes me think they’ve improved.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:

quote:

Then they pay me less than that for my power I put on the grid.

Why should a power company have to pay a supplier, meaning someone who sells power back from private solar, more than they pay to generate power.

What we pay as customers is the full retail rate, that's not what it costs them to make the power, they should not have to pay $ for $ back as a kick back for buying solar from consumers, that just raises the cost of power for everyone.

Do get the frustration, we've looked at Solar, and being in a conservative run state the government thievery of taking money from taxpayers to give to those who want solar on their homes isn't going to happen here, like in a D state. So payback is double the times you'll hear from folks behind the lines in Blue states.

In FL by law we have to sell back to the power company, we can't sell it on the open market to the highest bidder. That I'd like to see changed where we can participate into a power exchange and let the market determine the price.

If power in MA is $.20 kwh, then I should be able to resell my excess to them for double the amount I'd get here in a free market, but alias, the power company cartel is strong...

IF you want to go off grid a battery wall to store power is necessary, and for many homes, it can cost as much as the solar panel system.

I like your plan, just be sure to have good rechargeable storage system for rainy cloudy windless days...

I didn’t ask for any advice.

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:

I didn’t ask for any advice.

It's a forum, yo. People discuss things on a forum. They comment on other posts. It's what they do.

doesn't matter whether you ask for it or not, you are going to get it here regardless... part of being on a forum.

Speaking of property rights and power lines, a few years back one of the power companies here in S.C. were getting ready to replace the poles and lines that runs through a lady's field and the supervisor was telling here they had a 100 foot right away on either side of the line and she told him no it was 50ft and he disagreed with her... she then said wait a minute and went in the house and came back with the contract her family had signed in 1935 or so.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:

I didn’t ask for any advice.

It's a forum, yo. People discuss things on a forum. They comment on other posts. It's what they do.

And I can say I didn’t ask for advice as well. I can comment on his commenting