I've noticed that recently had been banning longstanding members for subjective reasons and even deleting threads by members without explanation. Even emails asking for information about those occurrences have gone unanswered. Has the culture on SigTalk changed or is being changed? Is it no longer member driven, and more ego driven? Or has it made it to the commercialization phase where any dissent is not tolerated due to its impact on the bottom line?This message has been edited. Last edited by: paularmola,
The more knowledgeable members here are, I'm sure, a bit startled to see this topic being allowed on the pages of this forum. For years, the subject of Sigtalk has been disallowed in this forum. When that forum was first created, its original owners made quite an effort to promote their fledgling forum on the pages of SIGforum. They didn't bother contacting me to ask if this would be permissible; they just barged in like drunken frat boys to let everyone know about their party at the fraternity house. Clumsy, amateurish behavior. I kept them out and vowed to them that the topic of their forum would never be allowed in SIGforum.
A few years back, they sold the forum to a Canadian group who, it's my understanding, has no real interest in firearms, but rather, only the profit they might realize from ad revenue. I despise such things. Yes, business is business, but discussion forums such as these become over time, communities, and they need to be owned and operated by people who actually give a damn about the membership, and not by some for-profit group who sees only the bottom line.
Paul's attempt to post his question was caught by the moderation queue, and I contacted him via email and we have discussed the matter, and I can tell you based upon my years of experience of managing this and other discussion forums, that it appears the administration of Sigtalk is playing a dangerous game, because, from hearing the details of what they are doing these days, I can tell you they are risking losing the very people who make any forum worth attending- the loyal core membership. After discussing the matter with Paul, I decided to allow this topic to appear in the forum.
I have always made an effort to be out in the open when it comes to disciplining and banning members, so that there is no doubt about what they did to get into hot water. The same goes for behaviors which may subject members to disciplinary action. If a member of SIGforum gets into hot water with me, I leave no doubt as to the nature of the problem. Handling these matters in this fashion makes things clear not only to the errant member, but also to the membership in general. This is one of the reasons why aside from a handful of guidelines posted in Classifieds, SIGforum has no posted rules. If you spend any amount of time here, you come to understand where are the boundaries of acceptable behavior. It appears Sigtalk is being run by people who either do not understand this, or do not have the consideration to clearly explain to their members what is allowable, and what is not.
I know that there are more than a few SIGforum members who are Sigtalk members as well, and they are welcome to discuss this subject here, as Sigtalk doesn't seem to want to allow members to do so in their forum.
I have never been a member there so I can’t comment on it.
But I’d like to take this opportunity to once again express my gratitude to you Para for this forum and how you run it. I’ve seen you disagree with members repeatedly and still not ban them. IIRC you even have a couple on your ignore list, or did at one point. I am quite sure you’ve allowed me to stay past my welcome as well. The way you run this forum is admirable. If I were in charge I doubt I’d show as much restraint as you.
Additionally I know you have had offers to sell this forum, and I’m sure they are generous ones. I’d not blame you if you sold it, but I’m damn sure glad you haven’t.
Thank you Para. Sincerely.
“Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets.” -bionic218 04-02-2014
Never met sigtalk and now I never want to. lol
|Sigforum K9 handler|
Interesting. I’ve looked at SIGtalk a couple of times when it cane up in my search engine results. Seemed to always try to sell me a Toyota or a couple years prepackaged meals. At least I had to wade through that to attempt to make heads or tails on the answer.
"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"
I've a feeling that if they have begun disciplining or banning members merely for asking for clarification on policy, the members of this forum who are also members over there, may be reluctant to speak up for fear of retaliation. That's where this police state-type behavior leads, inevitably.
I joined Sig Talk the same time I joined SIGforum. I knew nothing about forums at the time, but it didnt take long to figure out which one was head and shoulders above the other. I have long since forgotten that Sigtalk even existed.
Thank you Para!
|I Am The Walrus|
Wow. I didn't even know a Sig Talk forum existed.
Personally I don't see a reason for me to venture there, I enjoy it here quite a bit, no reason to leave.
|Muzzle flash |
I'm with you. I do visit a couple of other gun fora, but SF is the main go. (And I don't even have a SIG!)
Texan by choice, not accident of birth
|Retired, laying back |
and enjoying life
Surprised to hear they are still around. I haven't visited them in a very long time and see I haven't missed anything.
Freedom comes from the will of man. In America it is guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment
|34" Scale 5-String|
I am a member there as well as here (obviously). I visit there mostly for discussions NOT pertaining to firearms; i.e., funny pics or gifs, jokes, etc. When I want serious firearms talk, I come here (but I also enjoy the fun stuff here also)!
If I had to pick one or the other??? Well, it'd be SIGforum any day of the week and twice on Sundays! If I remember correctly, the only reason I joined over there as I was in a "time out" here for running afoul of the boss's rules and disrespecting him. Thankfully I've grown up a lot more since then!
Edit to add: FWIW, I also get to discuss guns on "The Rocketry Forum" which is dedicated to building and flying of low, mid, and high-power model rockets (not talking about the Estes toys, but rockets that cost $100 and more per flight!) as they have a section specifically for those of use who like to fly AND shoot. Due to finances, I'm only at the mid-power level (around $30.00 per flight) and will likely never go above that. I already have several hundred $$$ invested in the rocket, so cannot afford expensive flying costs also... and I'm rambling again; really wish I could sleep (insomnia SUCKS)!
SigTalk will pop up on searches and I have looked at it but never felt any need to join.
End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
I was/am a member there but it's been years since I've posted anything. Don't think I could even remember a password.
Like it better here anyways.
I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not.
I thouhgt I recognized your screen name Bill.
Yea, I made plenty of jokes on ST that many thought were funny. Until the powers that be thought otherwise. I baked out of ST quickly once it was brought to my attention that core members were being sent to the principal's office and asking me what I thought. Then I started paying more attention and realized that it wasn't a member focused forum, but a clickbait corporate forum.
I signed up there first after buying a P365. Like any forum there were members who were the Alphas in their mind, being pro bono mods and somewhat uncaring about new opinions. Again - EVERY forum has a few of those, they come and go. Along with that, old forum members across all the forums tended to treat discussions as being within their sandbox - predominantly male and very much tribal. We can't do that anymore, as I point out, 16 million new to guns owners are circulating, half women. You cant scratch your itch in public the way you might at your favorite biker bar. Standards are now different, and you will like it.
They get new members signing up daily, it's a big push and the now more polite conversations seem to fit the newer gun owner better. As with any expanding field of interest, some of the questions asked are the same ones many of us asked 20 years ago. Those who answer set in their ways to chafe the new members and give them their tribal stripes are now fewer. It's frankly poor behavior to think a newbie needs a a beat down to join the gang. Bluntly, it's gang behavior and no male forum of interest has been absent that behavior.
On the other hand, some of the interest I have seen in firearms from new members is misplaced - it's much the same as building AR's ten years ago. The focus is assembling all the cool parts and making a snapshot of the industry offerings to compare and see who has the cooler gun. Whether or not they needed it daily, or even shot it, meh. It's a game of making social rank, not marksmanship.
That goes on all the time in mens forums. Watches, knives, hot rods, bikes - there is a constant need to see who measures up and who doesn't. Its why the girls draw off to watch and giggle at the boys playing social standup comedy -
Personally, a bit more give and take would be nice. Iron sharpens iron, some are long term shooters, have gone thru the sea changes in what works and what doesn't, and can deliver an experienced and learned opinion on the value of things. Like, the validity of carrying an IPSC race gun as your conceal carry choice. You may, others cannot, and it's become a tiresome exchange of who's blurring the lines and what the agenda really is. As noted by P, start ups can and do get onboard to promote their paid special interest - the gun makers and accessory vendors can and do buy influence online now. They are another pernicious poster in forums and it's easy to confuse them with "real people" or discern why or how they may or may not be part of the group anymore.
Those with online experience from 2005 or even earlier see trends and have experienced some of these circumstances first hand. The days of a free for all discussion in a sub forum are gone, as are tribal initiation rites to put the new members in their place. Be careful what you read when these issues come up - just exactly who is complaining, and why? Is it a gun owner with a 1911 frame of mind reacting to the new Glock operating arena? Been there done that on forums, we just change the names then wash rinse repeat. Ie "drop safety".
The forums of the 00s have passed, it's not a small insular club of like minded fans. Not any more. It's not "Sigtalk" as much as the internet as a whole.
|I Deal In Lead|
I got perma banned from there around a year or so ago, then I got reinstated. Not because I asked to be, but because one of the mods thought I had been screwed and got me reinstated on his own hook. I go there around once every 2 months now.
What did I get banned for?
I mentioned that members of the AzCDL ( a PAC) that I'm a Life Member of have an open carry luncheon every year and we also have an open carry assembly outside the State Capital once a year. One of the admins decided that this amounted to me trying to incite the violent overthrow of the United States.
I've seen people get banned for jokes that were in good taste and for not liking what's being done by the admin there.
Go at your own risk.
I visited Sigtalk during the two-year interval before it was sold to the Canadian group. In that short interval it was a decent space. Notably, it had good coverage of the SIG P938 teething problems: Self-unscrewing recoil spring guide rod and deteriorating MSH. The screen name of the moderator in that interval was “Malicious Compliance”.
Serious about crackers.
|Save an Elephant|
Kill a Poacher
'I am the danger'...Hiesenberg
NRA Certified Pistol Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Life Member
|I Deal In Lead|
He left voluntarily for quite a while and that's understandable. A number of people have left voluntarily.
|Fire begets Fire|
The isle of misfit toys … had no idear…
"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty." ~Robert A. Heinlein
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