quote:

Originally posted by SpinZone:
You lost me at "waved over"

I don't pay attention to what’s going on over off of the roadway when I am driving.

And yes, I have been chased down. One cop in Canton Ohio was really pissed that I did not stop when he waved at me. Took him about 10 miles to coach up to me for a 65 in a 55 speeding ticket.

So a lawful police officer in uniform waves you over for a traffic stop and you say "fuck off copper", and drive around them and on down the road? Pretty fucking stupid if you ask me.

That's a guaranteed way to get a ticket. Most cops don't write tickets, and write warnings.

If a cop has to run to his car and chase your ass, you are setting yourself up for $400 to $800 in citations. Idiot.

It seems a speeding ticket that doesn't approach reckless driving levels has little to do with public safety and everything to do with revenue generation, at least in my neck of the woods. Fighting a ticket in court gets you an audience with a magistrate that almost invariably gets you an offer of pleading to a charge of "impeding traffic", a no points violation that still carries a very hefty fine. The last ticket I got several years ago, the officer that wrote the violation took the time to explain in great detail how to avoid the points on my record but still make a contribution to the city coffers.

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:

quote:

Originally posted by SpinZone:
You lost me at "waved over"

I don't pay attention to what’s going on over off of the roadway when I am driving.

And yes, I have been chased down. One cop in Canton Ohio was really pissed that I did not stop when he waved at me. Took him about 10 miles to coach up to me for a 65 in a 55 speeding ticket.

So a lawful police officer in uniform waves you over for a traffic stop and you say "fuck off copper", and drive around them and on down the road? Pretty fucking stupid if you ask me.

That's a guaranteed way to get a ticket. Most cops don't write tickets, and write warnings.

If a cop has to run to his car and chase your ass, you are setting yourself up for $400 to $800 in citations. Idiot.

Go ahead and make up lies to support your manufactured outrage. Where did I ever mention driving around a cop? I said I don't pay attention to what is going on off of the roadway.

The time in Canton had me in the second lane from the inside out of 4 lanes on the interstate with a dozen + other cars around me. I'm supposed to keep my eyes on the police car with no lights on parked on the shoulder in case a cop gets out and starts waving at one of the cars going by? The way I found out he waved me over was during his rant once he pulled me over.

And the speeding ticket cost me $170.00, not $400.00 - $800.00. It was the only citation he was able to write.

Maybe you have nicer cops but I have never been pulled over and gotten a warning.

(Insert name calling here)

I wouldn't make this too complicated. Normally, if you go on the County DA website, there is a form to submit to ask for a reduction in the charge, which is commonly approved.

No lawyer needed unless you want to skate completely.

Safe driving online class will further reduce the point total.

Plead NOT Guilty and request a Jury Trial.

IF that is Your right in FL. Here in MT it IS and I have seldom seen anyone get a jury trial for a speeding cite. Too time consuming and costly for the Court.

Bare minimum plead Not Guilty and make both Officers show up in Court. If either or both do not show , demand the Cite to be dismissed.

Sounds like not only a speed trap but a revenue gathering exercise...HATE that sort of shit. Puts good LE in a bad light.

Your wasting your time with the whole going to court thing IMO, give it to a traffic ticket attorney and pay the fee. Be done with it. I would NEVER suggest paying a ticket, always give it to an attorney or face insurance premiums going up. I understand how you feel and wanting to vindicated, but...

Having used a variety of traffic ticket lawyers in the past to contest citations, I can tell you a couple things: First, getting a lawyer will likely cost more than the ticket would unless you were REALLY booking. The value in getting a traffic lawyer is to keep from getting points on your license or having moving violations on your record that might affect your insurance rates.

In the variety of instances I've gone to court over a citation (which I always do. It's kind of a principle thing for me) by far the most common outcome has been a reduction to a no-points or non-moving violation. It usually means I end up paying the same or slightly less than the ticket, but as 'court costs' or some such, but my official record doesn't get dinged. Only once did I have a court that would not budge a bit. This was a small county with a big highway running through it, and they used speed enforcement as a revenue generator. I've only ever had a ticket completely dismissed twice. In neither case was there anything particularly special about the citation. The Lawyer just managed to make the right argument or knew the prosecutor and what they wanted to hear.

Also, the advice given to me by the lawyer I've used the most was the following:
- Be polite, but don't admit to anything. If asked questions like, "do you know how fast you were going?", respond with something like, "Why officer? Was I doing something wrong?" You can not answer without being a dick about it. There is no advantage for you to admit to anything you were doing.

- Ask if you can see the display on the radar gun. Nine times out of ten, it will say what they cop says it does, but you should ask to see it anyway. Sort of 'trust but verify'. I've never had a cop get cranky with me for asking this.

- Don't argue with the cop. You can't win your case in the middle of the road. Even if you think there were circumstances that would explain what happened or that the cop made a mistake, don't argue about it at the traffic stop. The place to make arguments is in front of the judge, so save them until then. It's just a citation, it doesn't instantly make you guilty or mean you have agreed to any wrongdoing.

Yeah, I know plenty of folks have stories about talking their way out of tickets, but by and large it doesn't work. Usually, your brilliant excuse isn't persuasive, so why risk saying something you might regret if you DO need to take it to court? My only exception to this rule is if the cop is flat-out wrong and might not realize it.

As an example, I got pulled over once for not having a front license plate on my car. However, I had the front plate. It was in the passenger seat next to me. I was able to explain that it HAD been on the car, but that particular car wasn't delivered with a front license plate bracket. So, the previous owner had just screwed the plates straight into the bumper fascia. I did the same, and it worked fine for a while, but eventually the wind buffeting and vibration literally ripped the screws out of the bumper. The cop just managed to see me in the short time between the plate ripping out, and the correct OEM license plate bracket being delivered. If I recall correctly, I actually had the invoice for it from the car dealer in the glove box and showed it to the cop. That did get me out of the ticket, but only because I had overwhelming evidence that I was making a reasonable effort to comply with the law. I literally had the plate, two wallowed-out holes in the bumper, and an invoice for the parts to correctly affix the plate dated a day or so previous. Plus there was no possible way to reasonably deny the actual charge, that I didn't have a front license plate on. Barring that level of information that the cop couldn't possibly have known about before pulling me over, and that level of being unable to dispute the charge, I just take the ticket and fight it later.

- Bret

quote:

Originally posted by FN in MT:
Plead NOT Guilty and request a Jury Trial.

IF that is Your right in FL. Here in MT it IS and I have seldom seen anyone get a jury trial for a speeding cite. Too time consuming and costly for the Court.

Bare minimum plead Not Guilty and make both Officers show up in Court. If either or both do not show , demand the Cite to be dismissed.

Sounds like not only a speed trap but a revenue gathering exercise...HATE that sort of shit. Puts good LE in a bad light.

Interesting, I'll check to see if the jury trial is a possibility.

Because I have a CDL I'm also very keen on NOT getting points. The CDL prohibits me from attending any traffic school.

quote:

Originally posted by SpinZone:Maybe you have nicer cops but I have never been pulled over and gotten a warning.

This is my SHOCKED face.

Having worked at three departments, my experience is that 90% of cops give 9 warnings for every 1 citation. The nice, polite, cooperative folks, get warnings. The douche nozzles that act like douche nozzles get a citation.

I have seen officers stand off the side of the road and pull people over by pointing at them. I doubt your story about not seeing an officer pointing at you directly to pull over, and I dont blame him at all for issuing a stupid tax.

Go to court.

Would it be reasonable that you would be going around that corner at 58 mph.

Judges figure it out.

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:

quote:

Originally posted by SpinZone:Maybe you have nicer cops but I have never been pulled over and gotten a warning.

This is my SHOCKED face.

Having worked at three departments, my experience is that 90% of cops give 9 warnings for every 1 citation. The nice, polite, cooperative folks, get warnings. The douche nozzles that act like douche nozzles get a citation.

I have seen officers stand off the side of the road and pull people over by pointing at them. I doubt your story about not seeing an officer pointing at you directly to pull over, and I dont blame him at all for issuing a stupid tax.

And you continue to to speak of things you know nothing about. When dealing with cops I am completely respectful. This has helped me get ticketed for lesser infractions then I could get such as the time I missed the school zone sign. Instead of writing me a 49 mph in a school zone he wrote me for 9 mph over the posted limit. Saved me a few hundred. I doubt he did that because I acted like a douche nozzle but hey, who knows.

You continue to create a mental narrative that fits your paradigm with no factual basis and then you accept it as reality. It’s actually sort of insightful into the type of person you are.

Congratulations, I never expected to use the ignore function here but you’ve convinced me otherwise.

With radar, we were taught to never clock cars in a turn, it actually puts the suspect car at a lower speed than he actually is traveling.

There are many ways to mess up a radar clock, the first portion of testifying to the stop and clock is identify the suspect vehicle. If there were a few other cars nearby, you could clock the wrong car, which is why identifying the suspect car, driver and having a little diving history of watching the suspect drivers car important.

Once saw a citizen get out of his speeding ticket, which I observed, because the offender simply asked the officer what color his car was. In NC the uniform citation never asks the officer to record the info. My fellow cop looked like an idiot, and the judge let the offender go.

I always wrote notes on the back of the court copy to include the color of the offender cars color and what the driver was wearing.

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:

quote:

Originally posted by SpinZone:Maybe you have nicer cops but I have never been pulled over and gotten a warning.

This is my SHOCKED face.

Having worked at three departments, my experience is that 90% of cops give 9 warnings for every 1 citation. The nice, polite, cooperative folks, get warnings. The douche nozzles that act like douche nozzles get a citation.

I have seen officers stand off the side of the road and pull people over by pointing at them. I doubt your story about not seeing an officer pointing at you directly to pull over, and I dont blame him at all for issuing a stupid tax.

Lighten up, Francis. Geez.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ruger357,

quote:

Originally posted by Icabod:
Read the fine print on the back of the ticket. WA allows you to request full disclosure. The trick is to po a certified letter on the last possible day. Usurally the government doesn't respond. At court, you point out the state failed to provide evidence that would allow you to make a defense. My neighbor used it.
Another point is when the radar unit was calibrated and given maintenance.
Most lawyers offer a free amount of time to give legal advice. That's an option.

What then generally happens is that you show up in court, your case gets called and you announce to the Judge that you want your day in court. Then you sit and wait. And wait. And wait. At the end of the day one of two things will happen. The DA will nolle prosse the case, or , in the case you have made a nuicance of yourself by demanding to go before so and so, or whatever, the DA will move for a continuance to get the officer-which the Judge will grand and you get to come to court and sit another whole day at which time iw will get nolle prossed. You win.
Or you can do what I do when I get a ticket-realize it for what it is-revenue producing-pay the fee to take the drivers improvement course so it stays off your record and remember not to speed again. I'm a defense lawyer and believe it or not tickets get written for a reason. Chickenshit reason, mind you but legally sustainable reasons nonetheless. I'm not here to debate the rightness or wrongness of it but just to lay out the realities of the situation. If you're gonna take your stand against the government, pick something else other than a freaking speeding ticket for cryin' out loud. If you cant talk yourself out of it at the initial stop-take your licks. I find a heartfelt mea cups and some humor goes a long way in diffusing situations.

I had an instructor tell the tale how early in his career, he was parked in a median underneath and behind a billboard.
He had been handing out tickets when he pulled over a driver who was adamant they were not speeding.
It was at that point he went back to his spot, below and behind the billboard and paid more attention. It turned out his radar was bouncing off the billboard and clocking traffic behind him, coming from the other direction.

You clearly did nothing wrong...talk to a lawyer

I remember from years ago hearing about a traffic court case in which the charge was thrown out because the one on trial pulled in some "expert" who proved that there were cases where said radar guns were clocking telephone poles at some 200MPH.

Do you want to share which agency/department this was?

My last speeding ticket was back in 2004 or so in Winter Park. I went to court hoping the Officer wouldn't show, and he did. I withheld adjudication, paid the fine and moved on. Now I don't speed in WP. Good luck, especially with your CDL.

quote:

Originally posted by Elk Hunter:
I remember from years ago hearing about a traffic court case in which the charge was thrown out because the one on trial pulled in some "expert" who proved that there were cases where said radar guns were clocking telephone poles at some 200MPH.

When I had my day in court, I observed another person claiming the radar was incorrect. This person didn't have legal representation but the judge simply looked at the officer and asked him when he'd last calibrated the radar and the officer claimed it was at the beginning of his shift. The judge seemed to think the machine was accurate enough and calibrated based on that "testimony".

I'm sure this varies from area to area.

My advice is to show up to court, tell the judge that it was a mistake on the officer's part, and that you never exceeded 45mph and then slowed for the speed zone. Make it clear to the judge that you do not believe the officer is a liar, just mistaken and that you understand that mistakes happen. Thats all you can say, and I would bet it will work for you.

I, as an officer, see defendants claim that the cop is a liar all the time and demand a trial, and while it IS your right, judges, prosecutors, clerks, bailiffs all HATE going to trial. Cops usually like it because they are on overtime

Seriously though, just be honest and dont be a dick and things will work out in your favor.