Since I retired, I work several days a week for the vocational school district in our county. There are 7 different high schools in which I work as a substitute to have spending money.
For the last 2 days I was working in a Construction Trades class. I had several students in each class put their heads down and go to sleep. I woke them several times and told them I would be forced to call in the vice-principal if they would not stay awake, watch the videos and answer questions on each video.

They all went back to sleep, I called the vice-principal. She said the classroom was very hot and to cut them slack as long as they didn't disturb the other students.

So it is now okay to sleep in class? I called the woman that assigns me the jobs and told her to take me off the list for that school.

When I grew up, vocational classes were a dumping ground for kids who couldn't or wouldn't cut it academically in college prep classes. So no one cared about them.

It seems like 30-40 years later, nothing's changed.

Between 1997 and 2003, I worked as the IT support weenie for the local school system. One high school, 4 k-8 grammar schools.

I could never, repeat NEVER be a teacher. I damn near got fired a few times before I quit because I refuse to take shit from a snot-nosed kid.

I don't imagine that it's gotten any better. You're a better man than I am, Cap'n Quig...

quote:

Originally posted by rtquig:
So it is now okay to sleep in class?

Nope, but there are any number of schools that have decided, for whatever reason, not to fight battles like this. So as long as they're not being disruptive, they let it go.

Not very conducive to that kid getting an education, but the school apparently thinks they have bigger problems to deal with. Part of me gets where they're coming from... There's only so much the school can do when so many parents fail to parent their kids, or fail to back up the school staff when they do try to address issues like this.

(Besides, as pointed out by BBMW, many VoTech schools tend to be the dumping ground for the troublemakers, flunkies, and stoners, so they're typically overly relaxed when it comes to stuff like attending class, paying attention, following dress code, etc. Issues like this are always amplified at VoTechs and Alternative Schools.)


This situation reminds me of a related story. One of the years I was a School Resource Officer about a decade ago, the junior high at which I was assigned decided that starting that year, they were going to implement a rule that students could not have cell phones or backpacks during the school day. They could bring them to school, but they had to stay locked in their lockers all day. After about 3 weeks of the teachers and admins spending damn near every minute of the day dealing with kids who had phones and/or backpacks, the decision was made to abandon that rule at the school, as it was not worth spending all that time and energy constantly fighting those battles.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
After about 3 weeks of the teachers and admins spending damn near every minute of the day dealing with kids who had phones and/or backpacks, the decision was made to abandon that rule at the school, as it was not worth spending all that time and energy constantly fighting those battles.

Which teaches them that they can do whatever the fuck they want to. Bad precedent IMHO, and the main reason schools are the hell-holes they are.

When I was doing IT, I blocked the pirate music download site(s). Hell hath no fury, etc. etc. but I (with the superintendent's support) would not be moved.

One kid got right in my face and called me a "Bald-headed Nazi Prick". I smiled and said "Yup."

In fact, I wear that title proudly to this day.

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:
One kid got right in my face and called me a "Bald-headed Nazi Prick".

How insensitive to call you bald-headed!

Seriously, I could NEVER be a teacher or work in any other school related capacity because I don't like lawsuits for head butting overgrown 3yr olds and I don't want to go to prison for slamming ones head through a brick wall.

This school is the exception of the district. Another school in the district that I expected to dislike is the juvenile detention center. The corrections officers keep them in line and school is a privilege for them.
The remaining schools are specialized, students have to test in and they are actually a pleasure to go to work at. One is a Marine Biology and Science, math heavy, another is Performing Arts, Others are potential Law Enforcement, medical fields etc. The one I was at for the last two days has auto shops and the building trades.
This school shows the students it is okay to do whatever you want with no consequence. This isn't the first time I sent a student to the principals office only to have them back in class 15 minutes later with a shit eating grin on their face because they bypassed and eroded your authority. I had decided last year that I wouldn't work at this school, but wouldn't tell them until there was enough work that I could chose where I would work for the day. To keep on the good side of the school I will tell them it is too far for me to drive and cost too much in gas and tolls (which is true).

I always slept in class or put my head down. That shit was boring, I got A's sleeping. Teachers would get mad and ask me how I get an A+ on my tests when I was sleeping. Secret was most times I appeared to be sleeping, but was actually listening. Only took three classes my junior and senior year. Left at lunch to go to work. Would have just finished in three years, but I didn't want to start college at sixteen.

Not all kids that are disenfranchised with school are stupid or lazy, for some it is just too slow paced and remedial. 1/4-1/3 of the year was always a review of the prior year.

In this particular class the students had to write 10 things they learned from each DVD shown. So, they needed 30 answers, nothing long, just a highlight. If you allow them to sleep in class, what happens they go to work and find out they have to work.
There is no winning here. If you allow them to sleep and a supervisor comes in, who do you think gets shit on? Not the student.

This is continuing into the work force now.

When I was working for a business jet outfit a little while back, seeing several of the young mechanics in a class fall asleep and be out for the duration of the block of instruction was common... and tolerated. Hell.. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these little shit heads fell asleep in the birds sometimes.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
I always slept in class or put my head down. That shit was boring, I got A's sleeping. Teachers would get mad and ask me how I get an A+ on my tests when I was sleeping. Secret was most times I appeared to be sleeping, but was actually listening. Only took three classes my junior and senior year. Left at lunch to go to work. Would have just finished in three years, but I didn't want to start college at sixteen.

Not all kids that are disenfranchised with school are stupid or lazy, for some it is just too slow paced and remedial. 1/4-1/3 of the year was always a review of the prior year.

I also used to sleep in class and it drove my Chemistry teacher nuts. I'd be napping and he would ask me a question and I'd wake up, play back the question in my head, and then answer the question. Note, this teacher would lecture straight out of the textbook the day after the reading assignment for that section. So if you did your reading assignment you knew the answer to any question he might ask. At the end of the year I scored a 98 on the year end final and he told me he just didn't understand how I could be lightly snoring one moment and answering a question asked while I was snoring. It's actually not that difficult, many Cops and Cab drivers acquire the skill to do this working night shifts.

Of course it's not acceptable, but you pick your battles. If it isn't disruptive, put the kid in the back corner and move on. Dealing with it during class wastes time for the kids that need a teacher. Detention for those who are disruptive plus a trip to the principal's office for the disrespectful.

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:
Between 1997 and 2003, I worked as the IT support weenie for the local school system. One high school, 4 k-8 grammar schools.

I could never, repeat NEVER be a teacher. I damn near got fired a few times before I quit because I refuse to take shit from a snot-nosed kid.

I don't imagine that it's gotten any better. You're a better man than I am, Cap'n Quig...

Several years ago (20+) I taught at the local community college. Taught management and business courses. Both day and night classes.

I very quickly determined that I did not like teaching the day classes. Bunch of spoiled, snot nosed brats. Loved teaching the night classes. Students there were mature, most if not all, working day jobs.

Our so-called education system in this country has become a scandal that is being ignored by the media and parents across the nation. And, sadly, seems to be driven by the federal gubbermint.

quote:

Not all kids that are disenfranchised with school are stupid or lazy, for some it is just too slow paced and remedial. 1/4-1/3 of the year was always a review of the prior year.

Which is a perfect description of the horse shit that our school system has become.

I was assigned by IBM to do a year as a faculty loan teacher at a prestigious HBCU here in Virginia. Students learned quickly that I accepted no BS. Assignments were due as scheduled, graded and returned with comments and grades. Ended up throwing 3 students out of class for cheating on assignments the first semester. No problems like that in the second semester. As I was leaving the campus for the last time at the end of the school year, I was met and stopped by a group of students who had been in my classes. Many of them were in tears because I was leaving. Their question? Who is going to care about us when you leave? And this was back in 1990-91 school year.

Almost deserving of it's own rant, but I would add
cell phone use, earbuds/headphones in use, you tube watching, and just about anything else BUT paying attention to the teacher to the sleeping in class.

I'm in my classes to learn. All of these things are an annoying distraction to me. I can only imagine what my instructors are feeling.

I did have one class where the instructor called out a student who was having a conversation over a you tube video with his buddy. It shut down the activity for a while but he continued a few days later. Turns out his mother was a staff member at the school.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
Of course it's not acceptable, but you pick your battles. If it isn't disruptive, put the kid in the back corner and move on. Dealing with it during class wastes time for the kids that need a teacher. Detention for those who are disruptive plus a trip to the principal's office for the disrespectful.

In a normal setting I would agree, not worth the battle. The shop classroom is so small that there should be no more than 12 students allowed in the room. This class has 22 students. The working area of the shop is big enough that they build 2 small houses every year inside it. I understand they would rather have a certified substitute, but at 65 years old it is not worth it to me to take a test and watch students work (and be responsible if someone gets hurt) for an extra $10 a day. There is no detention at this school as it is a share time program. Share time means you have a morning and afternoon class where high school students from the entire county come to the school for 2 hours and twenty minutes a day. During this time, I take the students to the Deli at school (there is a Culinary program there) and we waste between 20 minutes to a half hour getting them to the Deli, waiting until they chose what to eat, and then give them time to eat. These students do get a lunch break at the school that sends them. A waste of time and money. It does cover the cost for the Culinary program that sells the food for what it cost them to make. So twice a day I waste 40 minutes to an hour while the students eat.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: rtquig,

When I was in school it was always the norm to let kids who might otherwise act up sleep in class under the premise that it was better than them causing a distraction.

I taught for 9 and 1/2 years in an adult Career education center(mostly technical place).

I had students who worked during the day and came to school for 4 hours, 4 nights a week.

I would talk to a student in private if they were continually sleeping in class and tell them that I found it "RUDE".

Most of the time that would get it, sometimes they just did not have enough time to sleep at home.
I would give the students a 10min break as soon as I saw someone put their head down.

I would crack a joke and get students to laugh, that would wake them.
Sometimes I would tell them there would be a quiz right near the end of the class over what we cover today, and then ask 2 questions aloud.

Most of those students got failing grades.
Electrical theory is not over the top, but hard to cruise through, especially circuit analysis, or PLC.

At the community college I taught at, NOBODY slept!

quote:

Originally posted by rtquig:
There is no detention at this school as it is a share time program.

That's a shame.

I remember falling asleep a few times in an AP history class in high school. Now keep in mind, I love history, our teacher was awesome, but it was the 2nd or 3rd period and I would start to drift off about that time since our start time for the day was at 7am and I'm a nightowl (still to this day naturally). I never had an issue with the class, was just literally out of it by that time of the day thanks to a fucked up sleep schedule.

In college, I still hated morning classes and would schedule for night classes as much as possible. I figured I was there to learn so I wanted to be awake and fully functional. Plus night classes let me work full time.