When I become Emperor of the World and Dictator for Life, one of my first actions will be to require ANYBODY with a design/engineering degree to spend 5 years working in a shop repairing the sort of thing they plan to design.

It would stop SO much stupidity.

Daughter has a Yamaha Bolt. It's pretty much Yamaha's take on a Sportster. She dropped it in the drive the other day and broke the front right turn signal. I ordered a new one.

Every bike I've ever owned, and I've owned a few, replacing a turn signal goes something like:

1. Remove Headlight
2. Unplug one or two wires.
3. Remove one nut.
4. Remove turn signal.

On this little gem, the turn signal is one big plastic casting that clamps around the fork tube under the top triple clamp. Haven't looked at all the details yet, but it looks like I'll need to remove the front wheel and drop the right fork tube down far enough to slip the turn signal off over the top. Of course, the bike doesn't have a center stand so I'll have to rig some way to hold the front up off the ground while I'm changing the signal.

Morons.

Agree. Interesting that this is coming out of a Japanese company..... Usually they have experienced oversight to prevent this kind of novice stuff.

My daily pet peeve: people who sell products in bags (certain containers) obviously don't use their own products. Or why do they make their bags so child proof?

I think sometimes this is purposeful. From what I understand replacing the headlight on a Cadillac CTX involves taking the bumper off and other assorted pieces such that the cost is several hundred dollars. In other situations you must buy the ASSEMBLY, the parts are not sold separately.

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:
When I become Emperor of the World and Dictator for Life, one of my first actions will be to require ANYBODY with a design/engineering degree to spend 5 years working in a shop repairing the sort of thing they plan to design.

It would stop SO much stupidity.

"Hi, I'm vthoky... and I'm an engineer."

Within the first few months of my first job out of college, the crusty old maintenance manager tore into me one afternoon: "You need to work for Maintenance for six months to a year before they let you be an actual engineer!"

Predictably, he kinda made me mad with that comment. I was just 20-something and he was in his 50s I assumed, so I felt I should be quiet and respectful. But I still didn't like what he'd said (nor a number of other things he said and did).

Here I am, 20-some years later, and I can tell you this: one of the best things I've done over these years is to hang tight with the maintenance crews at every place I've worked. They're handy fellas, they're fellas you can relay on for a favor once in a while, and there's a whole lot to be learned from them. One in particular looked at the first control panel I put together and said, "You expect me to be able to work on this??" That comment stung, but this guy is an exception -- right after he said that, he showed me exactly why he wasn't satisfied with it. Further, we set the panel up on a bench and tore into rewiring it. Afterward, it not only worked but was far neater inside and well-labeled. I learned a lot that day, and I tell this story often.

Five years? I might say that's a little much, but I can't totally disagree with Paul's statement.

I do, on the other hand, recognize that not everything can be designed/built for easy maintenance. Let's face it: if we built everything to be easy to work on, most of it would be ugly as hell!

While many people would be happy it's so easy to work on, much of it would never make it to market. Brutal truth: Manufacturers have a TON of work to do, packaging all the functional bits inside an envelope dictated by the artsy-fartsy design folks. (Cough, cough! Cadillac! Cough, cough.) Ahem... 'scuse me.

Garage door installer had a few choice words for the sales rep that came to do the measurements. It took a second installer to assist, requiring several extra hours. He szid that all sales reps should be required to spend weeks on the jobs with the installer before being allowed to measure anything.

Reminds me of a conversation with a friend who is in manufacturing, and hires engineers; as well as with my brother-in-law who is an aeronautical engineer, but worked for years as an A&P mechanic. In both cases the “youngsters” coming out of school are not interested in going to the factory floor to look at what is actually done with their engineering drawings. Both my friend and BiL scratch their heads at the inability of young, smart people to make things with their hands.

quote:

Originally posted by sjtill:
... not interested in going to the factory floor to look at what is actually done with their engineering drawings. Both my friend and BiL scratch their heads at the inability of young, smart people to make things with their hands.

This sort of attitude clobbers me! Heck, it's half the reason I had to get out of the College of Business -- I needed to get into something where I could get my hands on things.

In the accounting courses, there was nothing to kick when things didn't come out correctly; I simply had to do the math over and over again. In the manufacturing lab, I could at least smack the robot when it wasn't doing what I expected it to do!

I have a particular level of hatred for engineers. I deal with structural engineers daily and 99.9% of the time they can draw up something and dictate what to do but fail to realize what they want is not physically possible.
Case in point, the job I’m working on now has some epoxy repairs. Epoxy can’t be put down more than 1.5” thick and certainly can not be used as a full depth repair mortar as it has nothing supporting it.
Engineer wants me to do full depth (6”)repair with epoxy, I send a detailed e-mail explaining why his idea is not doable for a lasting repair including manufacturers data sheets and communications with the product rep. His reply was 1 sentence “I want a full depth epoxy repair at the locations specified”.
So I covered my ass communication wise and did the “repairs” as specified. They failed just as I and the product rep said they would and I get to redo it the way I should have in the first place.
This engineer is 25 or 26 years old, just out of college, and wouldn’t know which way to swing a hammer.
Most engineers I have met don’t want to listen to 15 years of field experience
This is one of many stories I could tell.

quote:

Originally posted by ffemt44:
structural engineers

I posted this rant on a motorcycle board I hang out on.

One of the responders said "Remember, Bean Counters are the condoms on the penis of progress."

I may have that engraved on a brass plate...

One of the few things that could make my dad use foul language. He loathed engineers with a fiery passion.

Like anything there are good and bad engineers, just like there are good and bad maintenance and construction techs.

I have an engineering degree but spent a lot of years in operations. I will say I learned more about industrial assembly automation by being a maintenance manager and working with my techs than from anything else.

Now when I review automation designs from suppliers and ask questions I get the "that can't/won't happen". My response is always the same - I'm not that imaginative - everything I ask is based on something I've seen actually happen.

I spent a career in the military as a technician and completed my engineering degree before I retired. I spent another career as an engineer, senior engineer, and supervisor of engineering. When the supervisor of operations retired, they added his job to mine without a pay raise.

In my field, the engineers prepare Stormwater plans - they design how to catch the runoff and eroded soil and keep it from getting into the stream and streets.

We try as hard as possible to get them to come look at the site after their designs are implemented (either during a heavy rain event or right after) - so they know what works and what doesn't.

I still get plans all the time with silt fence shown running straight down a hill. all this does is create an enormous ditch and help the water blow out any controls at the bottom of the hill...

I don't know who teaches this in class, but there must be a professor somewhere doing it...
He needs to be beaten.

My dad was an EE and trilingual in "Engineer", "Management", and "Machinist". He spent most of his time going back and forth in the company making sure that everybody understood their part of big picture and figuring out how to get it done.

For his trouble, he also got to write the manuals since he also spoke "End User". LOL

In my interview as a student intern with a defense contractor, I was asked if I knew how to solder. I said yes and soldered Heathkit projects and larger stuff on the farm. I was then asked if I ever played with fireworks. I replied that I built my own firecrackers and experimented with various propellants. I was then asked when I could start. I was a bit surprised and the interviewer told me that knowing how to solder and blow shit up means I would fit in. Spent 8 years with those guys. The boss told me he turned down engineers from hot shot schools cause they did not have hands on experience. Had to get your hands dirty first.

Ah, engineering, thy name is BMW. My S1000XR is the most exciting thing I have ever put between my legs. But to work on it, even in the most simple fashion, is insanity.
The thing is covered in small metric hex head screws which take forever to remove and after removal, lining up everything to replace the screw is a nightmare.

I'd like to take whoever designed the headlights for the 2006-2015 Honda Civic and string them up by their testicles.

To change out a simple headlight bulb, you have to literally remove major components in the engine compartment to even think about getting your hand near the headlight.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
Ah, engineering, thy name is BMW. My S1000XR is the most exciting thing I have ever put between my legs. But to work on it, even in the most simple fashion, is insanity.
The thing is covered in small metric hex head screws which take forever to remove and after removal, lining up everything to replace the screw is a nightmare.

Yup. My '16 Yamaha FJ09 has similar issues. Pulling the spark plugs to check them requires removing the tank which requires removing approximately 1,406 button head screws, plastic bits, clips, snaps, rubber bungs and dinguses (dingii?).

I never even hesitated when they offered me the "Pit Pass" which covers all routine maintenance, including oil changes (which include oil and filter) for 5 years with unlimited mileage. So far that has covered all service starting with the 600 break-in and oil changes and tune-ups every 4000 miles. The bike has 13,250 on it and looking at the "Paid in Full" bills I have on file, I've already covered the cost of the program.

IIRC, the next service includes checking and setting valve lash, which involves removing the cams...

And people that fix or build things ought to try designing for awhile. Work within compressed budgets, compressed time constraints, bosses/clients who change their minds constantly, and overbearing and ever-changing government regulations. Get a design finished the right way and then have finance tell you to cut the cost by 1/3...

You are not wrong but there are two sides to every story.