I have to start this off with saying "I fuckin' HATE school!"
Not learning, just school.

I hated it in 7th-8th grade, and it didn’t go to well after that. I had a tough time in H.S. on the academic side. I hated it to the point that I'd rather get shot at by little brown people on the other side of the world than sit in another classroom, so Marine Corps here I come!

Always excelled in the classes in the Corps, (not that most of them were hard) and was usually somewhere near the top of the class. When I got out of the Corps (Active 1993), the LAST thing I wanted to do was go back to school. This somewhat hampered my quest in getting a job with the DEA, (I'm often accused of "cutting off my nose, to spite my face") but I landed up in a pretty good spot on Chicago Police with chances of lateral and upward movement. I excelled in the academy (coming from the Marines, it was easy!)

They (the CPD) changed the rules in the middle of my game, and said that I needed 60 credit hours to get promoted to Sgt.
DAMN….. Ok, time to suck it up and grunt it out and get my happy ass back in school to learn something. Me, being me, has never done anything in a correct order and always gotten away with some weird stuff. To wit- how I got my credit hours. Allegedly, one is supposed to get their "General Education" classes out of the way (History, English, Algebra…) before you work on your classes for your degree (I went for Public Safety Management).
Me, well…. I was able to knock out all of my classes for PSM and got 60+ credit hours so I can get promoted. Yayyy - goal achieved.

Now, I'm in a position that I need that degree. A little over 50 hours between now and that little piece of paper that says "You're smart". Back to school, time again to suck it up and grunt it out and my happy ass is back in a book. On the positive side; the class I'm in now is on line, and I'm not dealing with some snot-nosed 20-year-old kid in a classroom, and a HUGE benefit is my job is paying for a lot of it! On the negative side; I'm probably older than the Professor.
By the way, do you know how dull, dry and boring the Russian Revolution is? At least the book sucks.

Can you articulate exactly what you do not like about school?

I hate academia as an institution, but love teaching, so I don’t think I can say that I hate “school“. However, after earning a masters degree, I have no interest in going back for more. I still love taking classes on the side, as long as they are interesting or useful, and work pays for them.

I found a world of difference, attending evening classes as an adult vs. full-time as a college age kid. The people who attended evening classes were at school to learn, not to party. They (we) were serious, and knew what they were there for.

I finished my Bachelor of Science degree via evening classes at Illinois Institute of Technology, pretty close to CPD SIG's 'hood.

I think based on your statements it's not that you hate school, it's that you hate subjects or classes that don't pique your curiosity. I trudged through the HS and college subjects I wasn't interested in and got A+'s in the ones that did. By the time I went back to college in my mid 30's, I had gotten to the point of just sucking it up and finished my HVAC program with a 3.99 because I resented the instructor for a required "wellness" class and got a 3 point something in it.

Required degrees today in the workplace are just a measure of your ability at completing a task. You will survive. Best of luck.

Quit wasting your time on Russian history, it's a nation that has always been ruled by dictators and always will.

What you want to be studying is American History. There you will learn the actual reasons why the Bill of Rights was written and why the Amendments are in a specific order at the start. One example is the 2nd Amendment one we all know quite well. What isn't taught in schools is that it is Second because it's primary purpose is to provide protection for the First. You'll also learn a lot more history about why, when, and how our nation was founded. BTW, most of this will require your digging into history texts that are not "approved" by current educators.

Right there with ya. I took the long route to a degree.

Trying to make sure my son doesn’t lose his momentum and pushes through to a bachelors before he goes off. He’s starting an early college program that will net him an associates.

I worked full time and schooled full time. That was miserable.

I actually enjoy Russian history, kinda of like a train wreck…but text books are almost universally miserable. Good luck!

I started college at 18. Actually finished my bachelor's, with several starts & stops, at 31. Total collection now = AS, AA, BS, MA, and some post-Masters work.

Want to guess which one I'm proudest of? It's not the higher ones; it's that first AS, packed with General Ed credits that a) I didn't care much about and b) consequently, didn't enjoy and c) struggled at. Upper-division undergrad courses were less so, and grad school was a piece of cake because it was solely stuff I was enthusiastic about.

If it's not too late, consider standardized credit-bearing tests (CLEP, DANTES/DSST, etc.) They're "normed" to the knowledge level the average 19-year-old would have after taking a semester-length course in a subject, which means a functional idiot can pass most of them to a credit-granting score with minimal effort. Many schools are becoming more and more liberal in their acceptance of those credits to the point that nearly all of your General Ed requirement can be met. Thomas Edison State University and Excelsior College (formerly Regent's College) at one time had NO limit on the use of standardized tests and non-traditional credit sources to meet degree requirement, meaning that you could knock out a Bachelor's degree from a regionally-accredited college without ever setting foot in an actual class. (For a taste, check BA in four weeks. I have no affiliation with the site, but have interacted with the author at others. It's a real thing.)

Institutional education stinks, at least for me.
I quit high school at 16 got my GED a career and retired at 48.
It can be done.
BTW, not military.

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:
By the way, do you know how dull, dry and boring the Russian Revolution is? At least the book sucks.

Conservatives and communists engaging in a bloody nationwide civil war that killed 12 million Russians, featuring coups, genocide, terrorist attacks, riots, backstabbing and betrayal, international intrigue, chemical weapons, tanks, machine guns, artillery, war crimes, famine, sabre-waving Cossack cavalry charges, armored trains, guerilla warfare and banditry, and invasions by interloping foreign troops, is boring?!

Hell, that's practically the setup for a Tom Clancy novel, just set in early 20th century Russia.

(That's to say... It's the book that's boring, not the subject. )

I get that you're being forced to read whatever book the professor chooses, but if you're interested in learning about the Russian Revolution and Civil War from a much more engaging source, I recommend Anthony Beevor's take on it instead: https://www.amazon.com/Russia-...-1921/dp/0593493877/

I'm with Rogue on this one, he just got there before me.

Not to mention the internal fighting on the winning (communist) side.

Sorry, but as a person who beat back a serious learning disability, twice, I don’t buy that you hate school.

You are clearly a person who excels at subjects interesting to you. You also do better when you are interested in the subject and the prof is engaging. It’s the dullards, or the occasional hate filled lesbian feminist instructor (I was nearly undone by three of them: 3D design, History of 20th century photography, and organic chemistry whilst uni) that hamper your performance.

I am also willing to bet that you are a capable instructor, likely better at topics that interest you, but able to stumble through a PowerPoint deck on a passingly familiar topic.

How do I know this? Your history sounds a lot like mine.

I found I didn’t hate school, I hated teachers who made school unbearable.

My suggestion: Here is what I did. Teach yourself the subjects you hate most. Or, as the Corps’ says “embrace the suck.”

Attend classes to see what topics the pontificating person says are relevant, then go out and design that course to be taught by you to you.

I did this by augmenting the class notes with additional material, then a few days before an exam I’d take my word processed, augmented lesson plan to school, I’d find an empty classroom, and I’d write the notes out on the blackboard, page by page until I could do the 40 or so pages nearly letter perfect. By doing this I not only aced exams, but I learned more than if I’d sat back feeling put out. There was a time I could teach courses like P. chem better than the TA, even though I barely understood the material. It was because I did this over and over and I got good at it. But the real benefit? I learned I can teach damned near any non-upper math intensive class, if I get a day with the materials I am to use in teaching. Bring too much math, though…

If more discussion is desired, my eddress in my profile is.

Is my “Bendable” impression improving?

ETA: Why word processed? So I can sell my note set to following classes of students. I believe several students at VPI passed the classes after me because of my notes.

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:
I'm with Rogue on this one, he just got there before me.

Not to mention the internal fighting on the winning (communist) side.

Not to mention US (and others) putting troops in the field to fight in Russia, initially in hopes of overthrowing the Bolshies to get Russia back into WWI, but continuing to keep the troops there a couple years after WWI was over.

It's a fascinating period in history, and the consequences are still with us.

One of my old training partners is in his early 40s and went back to school to finish his BA. He went during the day with all the 18-22 year old kids. He said he felt so out of place. Being his age, married with 3 kids, he said he had very little in common with his classmates.

I felt the same way when it came to my MHR program. most were kids fresh out of undergrad, many had little work experience. But when I was in my MBA program, it was much better.

Besides having letters after my last name, I don't think either graduate degree has done much for me.

quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:
Can you articulate exactly what you do not like about school?

I hate academia as an institution, but love teaching, so I don’t think I can say that I hate “school“. However, after earning a masters degree, I have no interest in going back for more. I still love taking classes on the side, as long as they are interesting or useful, and work pays for them.

For the second half- Yes, yes and yes.

The first- Sometime after 5th / 6th grade I had a shitty set of teachers. One in fact was nothing more than bully. There were two or three intermittently in High School that were good or great at what the did. The rest... "Meh" at best.

I suck at math. No question about it, absolutely SUCK. However, If I had to go to New Mexico Tech, especially the "Energetic Materials" courses, I would figure out how to cheat my ass off on the Math Classes.

Yes, the rest of you are right, it it piques my interest, I'm all over it like a fat kid on a Popsicle! And I'll excel in it. The Public Safety Management classes that I have already completed were all "A's" and pretty easy for me to finish. Time consuming, a bit of tedium tossed in there, but I got it all done well ahead of time. Before anyone starts with the accolades and "Atta-boys", Calumet College of St Joes is no Ivy League Institute of Higher Learning. Think more "Grass league with dandelions sprinkled about" league school. It's close, it serves my purpose and some of the teachers being retired Cops, States Attorneys and a Private Attorney doesn't hurt either.

I have a meeting in a few weeks with one of the Professors on what classes I need to get from where I'm standing right now to that piece of paper, then what I can CLEP (standardized test on a specific subject) or LEAP (term paper on specific subject) out of.

As you all know from reading my drivel that I post on the S/F, I can be a bit of a hard-head and have a bit of an attitude. My problem is also that I don't know when to STFD and STFU. I'm the guy that argues with the Professor that is grading me not only on my content, but also the format of the paper (APA, you can kiss my hairy Irish ass!). Take it from me- DON'T tell your professor that the only reason the APA/ AMA/ Chicago formats and citing formats changes every year or two is because some self-important intellectuals want to get paid to mentally masturbate in the halls of academia instead of getting their hands dirty in the real world. Yeah, that didn't go over so well talking to a career academic.

Re- The Russian Revolution
Again, the rest of you are correct, and I presented my statement poorly. The Russian Revolution is pretty interesting, and does play out like a Tom Clancy novel. Try doing "source analysis papers"; "oh, who was the writer of this part and what did he mean by XYZ?"
I'll tell you who Albert Rhys Williams was, what his biases are, how he was not only reporting on the Russian Revolution, but a participant as well.
"Uhh, a few million people died because of the revolution and the effects of a incompetent government, the Bolsheviks, Lenin's propaganda..."

"Does the writer state how many people died? And from what?"
"Didn't Lenin say it was a revolution of Ideals, and not of violence?"

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
I found a world of difference, attending evening classes as an adult vs. full-time as a college age kid. The people who attended evening classes were at school to learn, not to party. They (we) were serious, and knew what they were there for.

I finished my Bachelor of Science degree via evening classes at Illinois Institute of Technology, pretty close to CPD SIG's 'hood.

Again, the place I'm going to to earn my degree is no where near as tough as IIT! However, I know the area rather well
Headquarters for CPD and now CFD is 3500 S Michigan. I worked in that neighborhood for a while. A nice 9 month conspiracy case just a few blocks north on State Street. (2700 to 2900 S State / Dearborn / Federal area)