“Tom said to himself that it was not such a hollow world, after all. He had discovered a great law of human action, without knowing it -- namely, that in order to make a man or a boy covet a thing, it is only necessary to make the thing difficult to attain.”
― Mark Twain, The Adventures of Tom Sawyer

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Second, take care of yourself. You've probably spent tons of time, money, and energy working, trying to take care of your son, and pining away for your ex and neglected yourself a bit.

RHINOWSO hit it dead on. I have done exactly that. I quit my hobbies (old cars, lifting, and shooting) I have spent a lot on her, and gone overboard covering things for my son so she didn't have to whether I had the money to do it or not. And since the judge ordered mediator was only willing to give me visitation as if I lived in her town I get my son a weekend a month, sometimes she lets me have two. It's a 5-6 hour drive each way down and back on Friday night and again on Sunday to take him back.

I need to limit things to my son and start taking care of myself again. Maybe have some fun. I understand the older guy thing. When I was freshly divorced, (before I let myself go) I kept having mid to late-20 somethings talking to me. Heck I was flattered, I was late 30's then, 43 now. That drove the ex nuts which made things difficult with her, so I never went out with any of them. And the ex is just 8 years younger than me.

I never got much out of counseling. Surprisingly venting here has helped, even though I have left a lot of the ugly stuff out. I appreciate having a place here to do it, since I have no friends here.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Second, take care of yourself. You've probably spent tons of time, money, and energy working, trying to take care of your son, and pining away for your ex and neglected yourself a bit.

RHINOWSO hit it dead on. I have done exactly that. I quit my hobbies (old cars, lifting, and shooting) I have spent a lot on her, and gone overboard covering things for my son so she didn't have to whether I had the money to do it or not. And since the judge ordered mediator was only willing to give me visitation as if I lived in her town I get my son a weekend a month, sometimes she lets me have two. It's a 5-6 hour drive each way down and back on Friday night and again on Sunday to take him back.

I need to limit things to my son and start taking care of myself again. Maybe have some fun. I understand the older guy thing. When I was newly divorced, (before I let myself go) I kept having mid to late-20 somethings talking to me. Heck I was flattered, I was late 30's then and a freshly minted Chief, 43 now . That drove the ex nuts which made things difficult with her, so I never went out with any of them. And the ex is 8 years younger than me.

I never got much out of counseling. Surprisingly venting here has helped, even though I have left a lot of the ugly stuff out. I appreciate having a place here to do it, since I have no friends where I live.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: buddy357,

This sounds so similar. My soul mate (met her in high school), and all that. We were getting engaged, and all sorts of stuff started happening. In bed, we were made for each other, the rest not so much. She became narcissistic, money this and that, requirements list. I walked when I just knew it would end in divorce. She wanted control of all the things and wouldn't meet in the middle on anything. Even today, 16 years later, she knows she fucked up. The mutual attraction is still there. Some times you need to use the brain over the heart. The love is there, but other things are not. My ex, totally toxic. We could be married today, but my balls would be in her purse, and I'd be owned. My own self defense mechanisms will never allow me to be with someone I have to answer to in a boss/employee relationship. She used to do the same thing, start emailing and/or calling, bring the ass around for the sessions, etc. Some things very much like your situation.

It is tough, but your brain needs to take over and you must convince yourself to move on. She comes around for the yearly ass sessions, say no. Take the high road. Life is very short and you are burning time, wasting it. If it was gonna work out it would have the first time. You are many years past the divorce. You have to move on. If you can't do it yourself, you need to seek professional help. The best thing I ever did was move on from my deal. It was hard, because she was the one. I may never meet another. But you have to admit the truth to yourself. Many times that one, is completely toxic and no good for you. Better to be alone for the right reasons than with someone for the wrong reasons.

way too much out there to be caught up on one.

Nothing will take your mind off the ex than some new, exotic wimmin-folk.

Don't get me wrong, random shack ups with them isn't the end all, be all (make sure you take precautions, last thing you need is another baby momma). But believe me, IT HELPS. It restores some of your self worth in yourself and reminds you that there is a SLEW of hot women out there.

And in your age category, there are plenty of similarly aged divorced women who are just looking for the same thing as you - consenting adults, enjoying each others company for as long as it lasts - usually it's a week or two, the next a couple of weeks, maybe a casual month. But it's just about having fun, licking your wounds, and moving on. Nothing serious and nobody is using anyone.

After that process has run it's course (a year or so), then you can look around for a more longer term relationship.

But don't rush into any serious relationship from here on out.

quote:

Originally posted by joatmonv:
As a man gets older, his stock with younger women continues to increase, especially if he has his act together. An older, divorced womans only decreases. Unfair but true as hell.

Rhino said this too and you may think it's bullshit but it isn't. I'm almost 50 and my GF is 37. Self confidence and a little gray hair possibly? Who knows.
The 24 year old barmaid at the local place found something about older men she liked too. I would never have a relationship with someone that young but anything else? Game on.
Get out and live life. Whatever it may be.

This is it. Rhino is the tip of the spear here.

Women depreciate. Men Appreciate.

From 20-35, women have something to offer a man. Before that, they are immature and relatively worthless in a relationship. After that, they become hormonal time bombs and their 'assets' begin the downhill slide. There are dozens of blogs, articles, interweb 'authorities' on this, but regardless of their actual validity, in the scope of human relationships, it is undeniable. Women have a short window, about 15 years to 'capture' a worthwhile man that will provide for her the majority of things she wants and/or needs in a durable relationship.

A man, however, tends to continue to increase in value in the majority of criteria women predominantly search for. If he has his chit together.

I'm an older guy. I'm not Brad Pitt. But I get hit on by a lot of young females, 19-25. I'm not rich, do not drive an expensive car and don't even own a house (although I lease two). My last major relationship of 7 years, I walked out on. She was a relatively amazing and desirable woman, but because she was insecure, she continually made bids to control me. I don't need to be controlled. I do that. I also have two guys that help me out when I need it. A father and son team.

I was also her fourth marriage; who could have seen that coming? Seriously, I understand the sex, the 'bonding', her psychological and emotional hold on you. Mine was afflicted with BPD, by far, the most feared affliction on the spectrum of mental disorders. It's a roller-coaster of WTF. Amazing highs. But a smart man realizes that ignoring the "You might not be tall enough to ride this ride (and stay on)" sign is flirting with his own sanity and viability.

I don't do 'catch-and-release'. I simply take the hook out of the water. I tell them I have shoes older than them (it's true). I'm not into leasing unless I think it's apt to become long term. I enjoy the saying, "A man looks for a woman to get into bed. A real man looks for one that's worth waking up to." The attention of young women is great, but the potential pitfalls are too numerous for me.

I take them out to movies, dinner, parties, events, we talk, laugh like kids (because they are - and I am in spirit) and yes, people look. Especially the female 35+ crowd, which I consider my target arena. But at the end of the evening, I take them home, give them a hug and a kiss on the forehead or cheek and get on about my business. No, I do not give them money. I simply treat them like a gentleman should, because they are more my 'daughters' than conquests. I'm flattered they find me interesting, and I return the favor.

Sometimes I reconsider my position. When they answer the door topless, or begin undressing in front of you when you're dropping them off, it's something to consider. So far, I've remained in the 40+ bracket and am quite content. That, and having options with even later models doesn't have me thinking about the ex's much.

I'll tell you the secret to most females. Make them laugh. It makes them comfortable, disarms them and makes their clothes fall off. Make sure they see you in the company of other females. They are curious and they will seek your attention. Then pick the one you want to wake up to.

I've got a 35 year old I'm cultivating, and I'm possibly robbing the cradle with her, being old enough to be her father. She is much like me in her measured criteria. I flat out tell her, I have no attention of trapping her. I just have to lure her in close enough to hit her with the hammer.

My advice is be in the company of other females. I learned this when my first marriage broke up and went through all the identical grief and having a daughter involved. I got to meet all the boyfriends. The endless train of them, of course. She made sure of it. She went on to have a total of four children, with three different men. It hurt. And it didn't quit hurting until I was in the company of others, and decided having fun with them was better than being miserable over the ex.

The best part is when, over the years, the ex's have all tried to take up with me again. Every one of them has at some point. A few I have dabbled with for the entertainment value. But predominantly, it's always been them discovering I had a newer model in the garage and me telling them to step off.

You sound like a good guy - and your son will grow to understand. I would suggest listening to "Highway 20 Ride" by the Zach Brown Band. The song gives me perspective, because I literally drove I-20 picking up and dropping off my daughter for visitation over many years, questioning it all, when it seemed like the punishment would never end.

It does. When you watch the road in front of you and cease looking in the rear view mirror.

quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
Seriously, I understand the sex, the 'bonding', her psychological and emotional hold on you. Mine was afflicted with BPD, by far, the most feared affliction on the spectrum of mental disorders. It's a roller-coaster of WTF. Amazing highs. But a smart man realizes that ignoring the "You might not be tall enough to ride this ride (and stay on)" sign is flirting with his own sanity and viability.

I've got that T-shirt as well. Five years of porn star sex coupled with a whole lot of WTF. Lesson learned and I'm awfully gun-shy since. Every man over a certain age should read up on this disorder and be on the look out for it. If you even think that it might be present, run far and run fast. They will destroy you and smile while doing it.

Lots of good advice and wisdom, too, in the rest of your write-up Jager.

quote:

I've got that T-shirt as well.

Ah, the four stages of death. We know them well.

I confronted her about money that had went missing. When I wouldn't buy her 'answers', she got aggressive, telling me she was going to mark up her neck, tell the police I choked her, have me charged with DV, file a restraining order to prevent me from coming to the house - and that she was going to subsidize herself selling off all of my stuff. That was not a threat.

That was a plan.

I apologized and bowed down.

That was a plan.

Over the next few months, I moved everything critical I owned out to a separate location unknown to her. She never suspected a thing.

Sure as heck, we got in another blow-up. She reiterated her 'plan'. I grinned, and told her she was "too late." I'd already removed pretty much everything. She jumped up, ran through the house checking. She discovered the truth. When she returned to me, her shoulders were slumped. She asked me if I was now going to leave her (abandonment is their greatest fear). I told her no, I just wasn't going endure her attempts to control me.

A few months later, she imagined she could just charge up the credit cards (hers) and buy two new cars, and refuse to pay any of the house bills - and I'd have to cover her. I warned her to fix it - or I'd be gone. She ignored me.

I paid one month on the house (lease) to enable her to have time to move - and I left. I stayed in a hotel for two months. Did three of the housekeeping girls while I was there before I found a house. None of them was half my age.

Our cowboy here has a child involved. I put a muzzle in my mouth twice over that in my first marriage because of my little girl and how the ex was using her as a pawn to torture me, and in my anger (fear), I defied God and asked him why I shouldn't pull the trigger. Both times, a voice in my head said calmly, "I am not done with you, yet."

It's his plan. We only have free will. We do the right thing. And if thwarted, we do the next right thing. Through the pain. We stop doing the wrong thing. We have to be stronger than the thing trying to kill us.

Of all the odd things to start helping me this venting has helped. It has been irritating because she knows the buttons to push.

I was driving to NC for training last Sunday. It started with the pictures of how great her new boyfriend of a few weeks is already spending time with our son. For me, I've never had anyone I dated come near my son. Then she tags me in her changed FB status to in a relationship, which never changed to married when we were.

Strangely that made a difference. I felt a little jealous, but also weirdly like a weight was lifted off my shoulders. Like I was free. Never had that feeling before with her. I felt good most of the week.

She previously begged me to change my plans and take our son for this and next weekend because she had to leave town for a conference. I made changes to my work schedule and had let her know. She tells me Thursday that she is taking him like we never made plans and "sorry" for my plans. Now I can't get him time memorial day weekend. She's playing her games.

Anyway, I am finally getting some things done I've been blowing off and joined a gym this weekend because the nearest base is 45 minutes away. Here's to starting over, a few years late is better than never.

STOP PLAYING HER GAME!

She's already gone
She isn't coming back
It's time to move on!

Walk, no - RUN away from this chick!

I know that you have/had feelings for her, but get away FAST!

She's the mother of your child, THATS IT!
Talk to a lawyer, draw up a custody agreement and STICK TO IT! Block her # on your cell.

She's playing games and rubbing it in your face. I've seen this happen a thousand times.

Do whatever you used to like doing to get your mind off of her. Hit the gym, go shooting, take up a new sport, get a girlfriend. get another girlfriend. get you a girlfriend that will get you a girlfriend (They are out there! )

The BEST revenge is living well! All her petty bullshit, the games... fuck that! Don't play into it! As far as your Son... One day the truth comes out. Do the BEST you can for him. One day, he'll grow up and realize the truth about what's going on between you and her.

Again, the BEST revenge is living well!

I don't know why, but women love to screw with their exes. Every damn one of them. I don't understand why they can't just go away.

Like Ulysses Everett McGill said, "women is the most fiendish instrument of torture ever devised to bedevil the days of man."

Cut ties with her, except for child issues. Stay away. Ignore her phone calls. It'll get better. I promise. I've been there, just like a lot of the others on here.

Guess I'm the odd one. I got divorced four years ago after 17 years and two kids. That first year was a bit rough and we just worked things out to benefit the kids. We let the hate go and work for our kids. She's dated and so have I. We never got back together but we've taken several family vacations to visit my oldest son. We were just there last week with no issues. She's going on vacation in June and I'm staying at her house to take care of her pets.

My exgf and I broke up past summer because she decided she wanted to have kids. I'm fixed and refuse to try a reversal even though she's willing to pay for it. We still see each other. I just bought her another gun. She's bought me two since the breakup. I have no clue what we are doing since I will never change my stance on having any more kids. I told her once I hit 40 I'm done. She was okay with it and even took me to my appointment. I made the big mistake of letting her hold my granddaughter. That's what changed her mind. But too late. I know we'll eventually break up for real. I'm guessing when she turns 30 and decides she's going to find someone who wants kids.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: buddy357, let your exwife go and concentrate on your kids first then yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Huffman:
I don't know why, but women love to screw with their exes. Every damn one of them. I don't understand why they can't just go away.

Like Ulysses Everett McGill said, "women is the most fiendish instrument of torture ever devised to bedevil the days of man."

Cut ties with her, except for child issues. Stay away. Ignore her phone calls. It'll get better. I promise. I've been there, just like a lot of the others on here.

My ex-wife really didn't after 20 years of marriage.

But my first real gf tried to screw up my second real gf and got jealous of the new girl after SHE broke up with me and caused problems and mind games. First one I know now is most likely Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Second one appears to be Borderline Personality Disorder. Pathological fear of cheating, going back to ex gf, finding better gf, etc. Horrible mood swings, mistrust, irrational jealousy. Frequent breakups over her irrational paranoias. She was great at first, but the closer we got, the worse her BPD got. I knew what it was and told her she needed to see a professional, but she never did. Final contact was her insistence we had to go zero contact because she cannot stop her bad thinking and behavior. We agreed not to block contact, but she did - phone, messages, FB, another phone app - and I verified it.

So I moved on to third one rather quickly (we started chatting during one of #2's breakups over imagined cheating), but I never met her until #2 was out of the picture. Things went great during our arranged meeting in April and we will see each other again in May.

Just the other day I noticed I was no longer blocked by #2 on the app we met on (I deleted and replaced my account, maybe that was why). I called and told her about more trouble #1 was causing even 9 months after the last time I saw her, and that was returned continued mistrust and insistence on stopping contact and moving on. Fine. Nothing ever changes with a Borderline.

So now I'm smarter and with #1 and #2 both blocked on FB and #2 on the other app (met #2 and #3 on same app) I put up a profile picture with me and #3. But somehow #2 sees the photo (blocked is not fully blocked on that app I guess) and calls me.

Now she's a crying mess for two days saying she loved me deeply, and spent the month not jealous, and was waiting for me to call her and say I love her and miss her and want her back. She was counting down the days of the month of zero contact.

Sorry honey, we said no blocking and you blocked me. I never expected to communicate with you ever again - that was your choice and I verified all the blocks (phone, text, FB, other app). And when I called about about the continued trouble from #1 you didn't say anything about getting back together, and insisted on continued non-contact. "But I wanted you to come back to me! You didn't show you love me!" Sorry honey, if you break up with someone, you need to do the making up, not the other way around. Sorry I didn't wait for you to get your shit together but opportunity knocks and decisions have to be made. And what is my guaranty that another try will not result in continued jealousy and craziness? Did you see a therapist or do anything to change? Nope, she just hoped it would be better. Wishful thinking with no action or plan for recovery doesn't usually work.

Now she is devastated she's been replaced, and lost the "love deep in her soul" to another. I don't like breaking hearts, and her pain does give me pause, but I gave her every chance.

Edited to add:

#1 was 30 at first meeting 32 after final breakup (tried twice, one year apart in between)
#2 is 36
#3 is 28

And it's true I am finding there is more interest in me the older I get - 45 now. I suppose it helps to be able to pass for 30-something and be in decent shape. But sometimes I want to tell the obese older women on the dating sites, sorry - I'm not desperate. Sorry, but "curvy" means shapely like an hourglass - not fat like the Michelin Man.

And yes, some casual flings can help separate yourself from an ex, or from a crazy gf you have trouble getting a way from.

But everyone do yourself a favor - understand NPD, BPD, HPD, and the other "crazy bitch" personality disorders. I learned the hard way by having to figure out what the hell was happening to me. How someone can change from love to hate and back to love at the drop of a hat. How they can blame you for their emotional instability and outbursts of rage over the tiniest things, then accuse you of not caring or loving when you can't recover from their attacks as soon as they do another 180 and act like it never happened. There is no end to their bottomless need for "love" and "care" neither of which fits any sane definition of the word. Love and care means YOU meeting THEIR needs, not anything about mutual respect, compromise, or fairness.

Buddy357

Your ex is deploying classic Narcissistic Personality Disorder Traits.

They need a constant source of admiration to feed their selfish needs. They are charming, loving, and very sexual when they want to get control of you. They make you feel special and boost your confidence. But it's all an act. They instinctively know your weak points and exploit them to control you. Once they have control, they get vicious with criticism, belittling, and humiliation, just to see how far they can push you. Despite what they spew, they cannot stand any criticism. And yes they will try to provoke you into altercations in an attempt to play victim. They are very manipulative and their friends and family tend to believe they are the innocent victim of the bad boyfriend or husband because they use their charm and manipulation to project an image that is different than their true nature. Only in a relationship do you really discover their true nature.

After you break up, they will check in on you now and then, especially when they are between relationships and need more "source". That's what your ex is doing - keeping you on a leash to use for her selfish needs when she wants you, and doing her own things (and seeing other guys) when you're not around. If you have a new gf they will interfere and try to keep you under their control. Not directly but they will try to "hoover" you or suck you back into their control when they feel they are losing it - usually by admissions they were wrong, still love you, and want you back. Go back and you're back in the same shit in a week or two.

They keep a cadre of ex's in contact. My NPD gf had two ex's she was in contact with. One poor "nice guy" sap I finally learned she'd gone back to and broken up with at least half a dozen times between him and another ex (one time he played martyr and broke up with her because he couldn't meet her needs). He kept messaging to say he loved her and wanted her back. Another one she blocked but still communicated with him when he got around the blocks or showed up randomly at her place. The "stalker" got so bad I had to testify in court against him as a witness in a restraining order proceeding. She lost because the judge didn't believe her allowing contact and engaging in communication instead of just ignoring him was credible enough.

Now 9 months after I last saw her, there is a legal action pending against me. I'm lawyered up, zero contact with her (she sent email I forwarded to lawyer and didn't respond to), waiting to see what happens next.

Bottom line: They cannot love in any sense a normal person loves, they can only seek to control so you meet their needs. The great sex female narcissists use is for control, and in many ways a performance - look at me how great I am - not true intimacy.

Get away, block, disappear, zero-contact, and for kids talk only through a 3rd party. Do it before it's too late.