There is a balance of course, but I'd rather take a little longer and have someone decent to deal with than an ass that's amazing at his job.

The attitude and entitlement and whining is just getting to me.

Edit for terminology.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Riley,

I’ve found as often as not that bad attitudes go along with incompetence and poor performance. There are exceptions of course, but I believe that attitude problems are very often a result of 1. the individual’s recognition that he doesn’t really know how to do the job properly and is therefore defensive about it, and 2. learning that he can avoid criticism by being unpleasant to people who offer it. The unfortunate fact is that people who are difficult to get along with and push back receive less criticism because no one wants to deal with them. The people who accept criticism gracefully when it’s justified tend to get more of it.

Technical may have been the wrong term. Nothing computer or tech related in which I refer.

I'd take good attitude and basic skills. What I do isn't rocket surgery.

I can teach someone what I know as I'm very good at what I do. But I can't teach someone good attitude and dealing with people.

I always keep at least once smart ass "bad attitude" person around. Most often he/she is the one likely to let me know when I'm about to step off a cliff. I just have to learn how to hear what that person is saying.

Someone who knows the job well and has the guts to tell me I'm wrong is of great value to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Rey HRH:
I'd take good attitude and basic skills. What I do isn't rocket surgery.

I can teach someone what I know as I'm very good at what I do. But I can't teach someone good attitude and dealing with people.

Agree completely. Stupid as it sounds, learned this training dogs. My trainer would always tell me, it's easy to bring an excited dog "down", but it's really hard to bring a timid/frightened/unhappy dog "up".

quote:

I’ve found as often as not that bad attitudes go along with incompetence and poor performance. There are exceptions of course, but I believe that attitude problems are very often a result of 1. the individual’s recognition that he doesn’t really know how to do the job properly and is therefore defensive about it, and 2. learning that he can avoid criticism by being unpleasant to people who offer it. The unfortunate fact is that people who are difficult to get along with and push back receive less criticism because no one wants to deal with them. The people who accept criticism gracefully when it’s justified tend to get more of it.

I agree to a certain extent. If someone is difficult to deal with and has superior skills in a technical area, I will give him an allowance for a lack of social skills. I will not tolerate a bad attitude if he or she is dealing with people in a job that requires much personal interaction. Some people are just assholes, others are socially awkward and some are just plain unskilled in dealing with people.

You can turn a nice person into a good Plumber. You cannot turn a good Plumber who is an asshole into a nice person.

quote:

Originally posted by sunburn:
You can turn a nice person into a good Plumber. You cannot turn a good Plumber who is an asshole into a nice person.

I, for one, fail to see the relevance of what being nice has to do with properly fixing my plumbing.

Given the choice of a nice guy who may or may not be able to fix my problem (at all?) or an asshole that will have it fixed in an hour, I'll take the asshole EVERY TIME.

Not to mention, but what about the jobs that just *can't* be taught? They do exist, and I'm not talking about artisans or tradesmen. There are some jobs that require such an incredibly high level of intelligence to accomplish that you take what you can get.

When I was in college, one of my goals was to be SO damned good at my job that I would be that guy that no one would ever see. *IF* anyone ever did see me, I'd be wearing flip flops and a hawaiian shirt in a board room full of suits, and they would all listen to what I had to say, and pay attention when I said it.

Let's say it's a heart surgeon - would you want a mediocre surgeon who is a "really nice person", or would you want the absolute best in the business, but has the bedside manner of a mortician? I know who I'd be picking (see above).

quote:

You can turn a nice person into a good Plumber. You cannot turn a good Plumber who is an asshole into a nice person.

I strongly disagree. Some people myself included simply have poor eye hand coordination and lack performance skills. I was born that way. Takes me forever to put things together despite knowing how it is done. There is no changing that. You might turn me into a plumbers helper but never a plumber.

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I, for one, fail to see the relevance of what being nice has to do with properly fixing my plumbing.

Given the choice of a nice guy who may or may not be able to fix my problem (at all?) or an asshole that will have it fixed in an hour, I'll take the asshole EVERY TIME.

Not to mention, but what about the jobs that just *can't* be taught? They do exist, and I'm not talking about artisans or tradesmen. There are some jobs that require such an incredibly high level of intelligence to accomplish that you take what you can get.


Let's say it's a heart surgeon - would you want a mediocre surgeon who is a "really nice person", or would you want the absolute best in the business, but has the bedside manner of a mortician? I know who I'd be picking (see above).

Yeah agree. Just saw your post. I know lots of surgeons and many are very disagreeable individuals. I would not want to be the First Assist or a scrub nurse with them, but they could have superior performance skills.

quote:

Originally posted by exx1976:

Let's say it's a heart surgeon - would you want a mediocre surgeon who is a "really nice person", or would you want the absolute best in the business, but has the bedside manner of a mortician? I know who I'd be picking (see above).

Can't say as I've ever met a heart surgeon who wasn't a raving arrogant asshole.

I think they must go to the same charm school as neurosurgeons.

You send a rude asshole to a customers home it will usually be the last visit from your business.
I will not tolerate that in my home and would not expect others to put up with it.

But do remember that a bad manager can change a good employee into an asshole too.

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Can't say as I've ever met a heart surgeon who wasn't a raving arrogant asshole

Nicely put. Agree completely.

Some people develop a bad attitude because their coworkers suck and they always end up doing the bulk of the work. The boss may prefer someone with a great attitude, but unless they are going to pick up the slack personally, they should really be focused on balancing the workload instead of "who is smiling today".

I work with a guy who has a great attitude and is an absolutely useless turd. But he's a happy turd with a good attitude.

What I do and our employees do ISN'T "rocket surgery" as quoted from above. That's why I'd take the good attitude. I've dealt with enough people with pissy attitudes, and in this field, I don't need it, as I typically can't train it out of them.

Granted, you need a reasonable amount of intelligence. But plenty of people on the planet have that. I don't see why wanting a cheerful demeanor is too much too ask, and with all other things equal, I'll take that over a technically superior employee with a shit attitude that I have to keep finding other employees to work with (cuz everyone else keeps quitting dt aholes attitude). Mine is a equal playing field teamwork environment.

A plumber or heart surgeon isn't the same. They are solo players (maybe not plumbers, so much, but I rarely see two at my house unless one is training in). Everyone else is a peon to them. And iirc, that is how heart surgeons are trained. They HAVE to believe they are superior- they literally hold a life in their hands. If you ever get a chance, sit in on a med school lecture regarding this- they are told- everyone in the operating theater is depending on what you do and tell others to do - the support staff, the patient, everyone. Carry that load on your back, and I bet you'd be a bit more direct in your conversation, too. No time to waste.

I'll take solid work from an ass hole any day over a nice guy with poor skills.

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:
I'll take solid work from an ass hole any day over a nice guy with poor skills.

You would LOVE my ortho surgeon. Complete and absolute prick who did *stellar* work on me.
I had some issues with him but damned if he isn't a great surgeon.