I have seen countless posts here expressing the assumption, if not hope, that a bad person sentenced to prison will be assaulted or worse by fellow inmates.

I don’t understand how anyone who considers himself to be a moral person can express such sentiments. People who are in prison and who would be capable of assaulting or killing a fellow inmate are there for good reasons—do we really want them to commit more crimes for any reasons?

“Oh, I’m just expressing my frustrations; don’t take it seriously.” Okay, what other expressions of frustrations shouldn’t be taken seriously? How about, “That guy is a Fascist and advocates the private ownership of guns. He deserves to die by a gun”—? No one could possibly believe that was a good idea, so let them say what they want, right?

Words and sentiments matter and if we want others to think about what they say, perhaps we should do the same.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigfreund,

Agreed.

quote:

hope, that a bad person sentenced to prison will be assaulted or worse by fellow inmates.

I don’t understand how anyone who considers himself to be a moral person can express such sentiments.

What exactly is a “bad person”? If you don’t define your term, you’re just lumping every “bad” person into one group, and your position falls apart, afaic.

Do I wish a person who is imprisoned for theft, or accidentally causing a death of another even, more harm while incarcerated? Absolutely not.

But, a child molester/rapist? You betcha. My position on these monsters has always been death, anyway. Evil has no remorse, hence cannot be rehabilitated anyway. If that makes me immoral in your eyes, so be it.

Nope, I’m not expressing my “frustrations”, because that’s my position.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
What exactly is a “bad person”? If you don’t define your term, you’re just lumping every “bad” person into one group, and your position falls apart, afaic.

Do I wish a person who is imprisoned for theft, or accidentally causing a death of another even, more harm while incarcerated? Absolutely not.

But, a child molester/rapist? You betcha. My position on these monsters has always been death, anyway. Evil has no remorse, hence cannot be rehabilitated anyway. If that makes me immoral in your eyes, so be it.

Nope, I’m not expressing my “frustrations”, because that’s my position.

Of the same mindset. You beat on a woman, or a child, IDGAF. I’m personally dealing with leading a woman and two young women out of a domestic violence situation. The threat is real. I’d love nothing more than this bastard going to jail, not county, but state, and letting the inmates have his ass, literally. Other shit, like theft, drugs, I don’t have the same mindset. Not the same thing. You hurt a woman or a child, I have no remorse. The shit I’m dealing with right now, you just don’t want to know. It’s awful shit man. Really awful. I hope the fucker gets locked up at some point and Bubba has his way with him.

^^^add animal abusers and you've got my vote.

Thanks for the revelations.
As I have said before, I value being a member here for two main reasons:
What I have learned about guns and shooting, but even more what I have learned about my fellow man.

On a broader note, our legal system began with a "revenge" system, where the victim or his family took revenge. This evolved to the "hue and cry" method where the community chased down and administered "justice." Over the centuries, it has evolved to where we are today, where justice is often not the end result. People are angry over this. Society demands revenge, and that is one of the legitimate objects of the criminal justice system. Many people feel that some crimes demand more severe punishments that are being administered, and the justice system has been corrupted. I can't speak for today, but up to about 2o years ago, many convicts had a more sharply defined sense of punishment. This, coupled with the fact that a good percentage of convicts have been victims of abuse, and have female relatives who have been abused, and have relatives who were murdered, sometimes they feel justified in taking revenge. I cannot fault anyone for wanting revenge on some of the human scum we see committing crimes today. It can be argued it is immoral and against Christian values, but it is a normal human emotion.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
I have seen countless posts here expressing the assumption, if not hope, that a bad person sentenced to prison will be assaulted or worse by fellow inmates.

I don’t understand how anyone who considers himself to be a moral person can express such sentiments.

{takes out small pad, crosses "moral person" off list entitled "Critical Self-Assessment"}

quote:

People who are in prison and who would be capable of assaulting or killing a fellow inmate are there for good reasons—do we really want them to commit more crimes for any reasons?

I would need some details.

"Prison Justice" just creates more monsters, and makes the ones that already existed worse.

While I don't waste a lot of time or emotion feeling bad for people who suffer terminal outcomes from their own poor choices, I don't wish for it or promote it, either.

We have a justice system for a reason. Often I'm frustrated by the way it works, the expense, and the speed at which it moves, but ultimately it's the process that protects me from having to resort to my own depraved nature in an effort to right wrongs, and allows me to live at peace with my conscience. If a jury weighs all the facts and decides he deserves the needle or a bullet, then I hope the sentence is carried out quickly and efficiently with as little drama and expense as possible. If they decide on a lesser sentence then we're still bound to see that he serves it.

If this kid gets killed in prison I won't cry over him. But I wouldn't reward the perpetrators for doing it, and I'd expect the DOC staff to do their jobs and protect him just like anyone else in the facility.

Frankly, the last few days have just made me sad. I'm sad for Charlie because he didn't deserve to go out like that. I'm sad for his wife. I'm sad for his kids who now have to grow up without their dad. I'm sad for the conservative movement as a whole to have lost such a man. I'm sad for our country that for some reason a certain percentage of the population seems to think that this is an acceptable way to deal with disagreement. And I'm even sad for the father of the shooter who had to arrest his own son and turn him in knowing he's likely facing a death sentence, and forever live with wondering if he couldn't have done something different as a parent to change this outcome. The whole situation is just horrifically depressing and having that guy get beat to death or shanked in prison won't make it any better.

Not directed at any particular comment or person. But I don't have much faith in our justice system as it stands today. Sometimes it works but mostly it seems to fail. Like it failed spectacularly for the UA lady in Charlotte. Like it fails repeatedly in the 9th circuit. I believe in karma more than justice. It's sad when I'm surprised when justice prevails.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Not directed at any particular comment or person. But I don't have much faith in our justice system as it stands today. Sometimes it works but mostly it seems to fail. Like it failed spectacularly for the UA lady in Charlotte. Like it fails repeatedly in the 9th circuit. I believe in karma more than justice. It's sad when I'm surprised when justice prevails.

I don't disagree at all. In fact, I work in the justice system, so I see how screwed up it is every day. But it's the system we've got, and the alternatives (vigilantism, anarchy, totalitarianism etc.) are worse.

We shall reach a point- perhaps within the lifetime of most members here (despite the median age of our members being around 55 or more)- wherein vigilantism will become the only way to effect real and positive (yes, I said positive) change in order to restore and preserve our society.

People who love this country and wish to save it will have to come to terms with the truth of this, and will have to find the resolve required. Old trees, New ropes

Anyone who wishes to condemn me for this opinion, be my guest. I have no intention of starting anything, but when things start to collapse, I'm not going to hide in my house.

I'll probably be in the ground by the time the festivities begin, and if so, I pray God grants me a vengeful ghost with the power to cause misfires in the rifles of the enemy.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
We shall reach a point- perhaps within the lifetime of most members here (despite the median age of our members being around 55 or more)- wherein vigilantism will become the only way to effect real and positive (yes, I said positive) change in order to restore and preserve our society.

People who love this country and wish to save it will have to come to terms with the truth of this, and will have to find the resolve required. Old trees, New ropes

Anyone who wishes to condemn me for this opinion, be my guest. I have no intention of starting anything, but when things start to collapse, I'm not going to hide in my house.

I'll probably be in the ground by the time the festivities begin, and if so, I pray God grants me a vengeful ghost with the power to cause misfires in the rifles of the enemy.

Well said. If they don’t figure this out, it’s going to get a lot worse. If society collapses before my time comes, I would like to think I would do what I could do to save it for my children. I would gladly spent the rest of my life in prison or killified if it saved one or both of my daughters future.

The cure in my mind is to generously enforce the death penalty for premeditated murder, forcible rape, and similar heinous acts. Especially if they are multiple or repeat acts, which (almost by definition) would be the case in a prison.

It might not deter determined, evil people, but it would cut down on the recidivism.

Reading para's post, I am reminded of this quote:

"The most terrifying force of death, comes from the hands of men who wanted to be left alone. They try, so very hard, to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love. They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it. They know, that the moment they fight back, their lives as they have lived them, are over.

The moment the men who wanted to be left alone are forced to fight back, it is a form of suicide. They are literally killing off who they used to be. Which is why, when forced to take up violence, these men who wanted to be left alone, fight with unholy vengeance against those who murdered their former lives. They fight with raw hate, and a drive that cannot be fathomed by those who are merely play-acting at politics and terror. TRUE TERROR will arrive at these people’s door, and they will cry, scream and beg for mercy… but it will fall upon the deaf ears of the men who just wanted to be left alone."

Alexandr Solzhenitsyn

How am I supposed to feel about a monster who has been released multiple times, only to stab a young lady.

If the only consequences are to suffer to others while in prison, so be it.

The application of the criminal code was nothing 14 times.

These situation are the root of your problem.
In these cases, when is justice going to be applied?

quote:

Originally posted by dsiets:
How am I supposed to feel about a monster who has been released multiple times, only to stab a young lady.

If the only consequences are to suffer to others while in prison, so be it.

The application of the criminal code was nothing 14 times.

These situation are the root of your problem.
In these cases, when is justice going to be applied?

I absolutely 100% share your frustration with the current system. Believe me. I deal with the same criminals over and over again, and I've seen people get victimized by scumbags who have been arrested, convicted, and released (either outright, on probation, work release, community corrections, etc.) over and over again. But IMO the solution is to fix the system, not rely on individuals to apply their own version of justice. The public needs to take the time to understand what's actually happening in our courts and criminal justice system and put pressure on our elected officials to actually lock people up, even if it means spending tax dollars to make it happen.

Looking at the specific case of Charlie Kirk's assassination...they grabbed the wrong guy twice before they got the right one. Apparently the first one was some nutjob yelling that he'd done it, so it was completely understandable that they detained him. But the system allowed for them to investigate and determine that he was not in fact the shooter. So he got released. That wouldn't have been possible if he'd been immediately beaten to death or strung up from the nearest tree.

The punishment should fit the crime. There are way too many times that our justice system provides punishment that is weak -- the system sometimes provides no incentives for criminals to cease their ways.

A violent murderer may end up in prison with a light sentence. I have no issues if said murderer meets an early dirt nap behind bars.

A serial rapist/child-abuser may also get a light sentence. I have no issues if said deviant becomes Bubba's shower bitch, and even develops some kind of disease/infection.

A fentanyl (or similar) dealer/distributor likely has destroyed the lives of many, even promoted overdose deaths. I have no issues if said dealer meets a early chemical dirt nap behind bars.

I don't consider this immoral or amoral. I submit that anyone who considers this immoral or amoral consider the problems our society experiences due to weak justice systems -- and then reevaluate their own moral compasses.

Interesting concept. Not sure if I buy it.

https://x.com/will_tanner_1/st...817544662560929?s=42


Will Tanner

@Will_Tanner_1
Why is this?

Because for hundreds of years, Europe executed its criminal underclass mercilessly. About 1% of each generation was executed, and another ~1% was killed at the scene of the crime immediately after committing the offense

So they put lifeguards in the gene pool, and now don't have to do much in the way of incarceration. They largely screened out the various crime genes

America, for obvious reasons, has a population a large part of which did not undergo those eugenic pressures

So we have to incarcerate at higher rates


The bar chart:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G0...mat=png&name=900x900

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:
Interesting concept. Not sure if I buy it.

https://x.com/will_tanner_1/st...817544662560929?s=42


Will Tanner

@Will_Tanner_1
Why is this?

Because for hundreds of years, Europe executed its criminal underclass mercilessly. About 1% of each generation was executed, and another ~1% was killed at the scene of the crime immediately after committing the offense

So they put lifeguards in the gene pool, and now don't have to do much in the way of incarceration. They largely screened out the various crime genes

America, for obvious reasons, has a population a large part of which did not undergo those eugenic pressures

So we have to incarcerate at higher rates


The bar chart:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G0...mat=png&name=900x900

What a load of bollocks I say