Sad to see what we are doing to ourselves.
This depicts how businesses respond - they leave.





Much like the videos of Louis Rossmann in NYC before he bailed to Texas that showed store after store closing.

Happening everywhere ... even in Texas, sadly.

I spent several days there in the late 80's and it was clean, barrier-free and bustling with activity. I walked around the city for hours during my free time, often in the evening, and never felt unsafe. There were beggars but they were very passive. That was difficult to watch.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:

Sad to see what we are doing to ourselves.

What is this "we"?

This is all on the crazy Democrats there.

^^^^^^^

I have read for years about the decline of SF and believed what I heard for the most part.

My Daughter has lived in Napa for about 4 years and visits SF regularly she was just there for a few days about a week ago. She was back home here in Chicago last month and I asked Her about the crime and deterioration of the city of SF, she replied she didn't really see anything and always enjoys her stays there. This makes me wonder if its really as bad as its portrayed by our media.
I live in Chicago so I read plenty of bad press for this city. You would think I must step over bodys everywhere I go. fact is I have lived here and this area for 72 years and only once ever saw a dead body on the street. I worked in and spent many days driving around in the worst areas of the City for about 30 years, the West side or as the natives call it the "Wild West". I saw many scum bags but never had a problem.

This makes me think that the reports of SF might be like the reports of Chicago.

Do people on this forum that live around SF really think the city is as bad as we hear?

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:

Sad to see what we are doing to ourselves.

What is this "we"?

This is all on the crazy Democrats there.

Umm, yeah thanks for that.

He also did a video tour of Embarcadero Center and most of the commercial spaces there were for lease. While I hardly visited Embarcadero Center, I used to commute on and visit Market Street to shop quite often. It's a huge change to see so many empty commercial spaces in that video. I would have liked to see him go up Powell Street toward Union Square, though.

Yea it is that bad. Last time I took BART from Oakland airport it was the classic stepping over drug addicts passed out on the train bit. Nobody seemed to find it unusual. I suspect your daughter has gotten used to it, doesn’t want to believe it as bad as it is, is typical Californian who won’t admit the failure.

As for Chicago you know full well that there are parts you feel safe in and parts you wouldn’t go in short of an infantry platoon. Feel free to convince us I’m wrong. You can say that about most big Democrat towns. Last one I lived near was Baltimore. I could walk the Inner Harbor all day. Get a couple blocks off it though and all bets were off.

You don’t want to believe it is as bad as it is. Human nature.

I’m on BART heading to SF right now. I could make a half hour video showing a thriving SF. I could make a half hour video showing SF being a half step from the end of the world. The truth is somewhere in between. SF has a lot of problems. It’s always had a lot of problems. There are more problems and they’re getting more screen time than there were prior to the pandemic. A visitor could come and have a great time. A visitor could come and leave early bowing to never return. It’s part expectation, part experience, and part luck. It always has been. Things are currently tilted to needing a quicker swivel and a higher tolerance for urban bullshit. SF has never been Disney.

quote:

Originally posted by berto:
I could make a half hour video showing a thriving SF.

I could make a half hour video showing SF being a half step from the end of the world.

The truth is somewhere in between.

SF has never been Disney.

Never been to SF and what struck me was this area was supposed to be one of the primary economic areas, maybe I'm wrong.

I know you can always find and video the bad areas where the drugged up losers are shitting everywhere and taking over as they please, that is not the point.

The point was that one of the best areas and businesses cannot or will not survive or participate.

You could say the same thing with the evolution of shopping malls everywhere but the reason is entirely different and not caused by allowing societies worst to take over but rather technology.

So if there are great areas unaffecting with this new-urban blight ~ where are they and why are they unaffected?

The stretch of Market in the video, from Civic Center to the cable car turnaround on Powell, has been dicey for decades. It’s called mid Market and for pretty much my entire life has been a problematic area where the dead zone of the Civic Center meets the Tenderloin meets skid row meets the touristy shopping area of Union Square. I don’t know what the area was like in the ‘50s and ‘60s but from the ‘70s on it’s been a mix of porn theatres, strip clubs, surplus stores and other discount retailers, and businesses that frequently came and went. Waiting for redevelopment and some kind of grime have been the only constants. The tech boom finally saw some of that redevelopment. Twitter moved in. A few long time businesses got gentrified out of business. The best liquor store in the city was there and got forced out. Some pricey housing went up. What didn’t get redeveloped or even touched by the boom were the dead zone created by the Civic Center and the Tenderloin. A few blocks away from the new $7k/ month apartments is still the worst part of the city. The pandemic did a number on a lot of businesses that popped up during the boom. The video shows an area that’s always struggled as an area that continues to struggle. In short it shows a five or do block stretch of the city that’s been the same for decades.

When I lived there in the 80's Market St was like berto said, never was a real good shopping area, and the Tenderloin was no go unless you wanted hookers, drugs or to get robbed etc.

Still, theres no denying the crime and large number of people living in the street in tents, or the increase in walk in thefts by people who are stealing to give goods to the current mob in charge, exchange goods for drug money. Nor can the exodus of retailers from the city be ignored, lack of customers, high rents, no police assistance on under $1K robbery, combine it with dempanic and you'll lose retailers.

Why have a big box in high rent areas when you can sell the same product online and have it delivered...

Shame really, we spent most weekends in the city when we were not running up and down the coast or up to Napa/Sonoma.

If that same area got a NYC Giuliani style cleanup those “high rent” buildings would fill back up. When I was a kid my parents would take us to SF on Sunday afternoons. Go to Chinatown, have a meal, walk around, spend time and money in SF. No way you are doing that today. Of course there are areas that are still nice-ish but they are shrinking and are surrounded by crap. Would you take your family to downtown SF today?

quote:

Why have a big box in high rent areas when you can sell the same product online and have it delivered...

I think the issue more is crime (and lack of dealing with it) than the convenience of the Internet.

True. If the internet was the issue nobody would do the NYC thing. Some people love the big city tourism thing. You have to feel safe-ish at least.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:

quote:

Why have a big box in high rent areas when you can sell the same product online and have it delivered...

I think the issue more is crime (and lack of dealing with it) than the convenience of the Internet.

Not saying that was the main reason, but that they can reach customers electronically without all the high costs of a downtown store.

Years ago having a flagship store was key, a sign you'd made it, now you just need a massive online presence....

Sad. I used to take my young kids down there on BART. We'd do Pier 39, Market, just about everywhere, sometimes even the zoo (drove for that.) We moved in '93, I haven't been back since '95. I sent my daughters several times to stay with Grandpa in St John's Wood area. It was nice in the 80's. I even used to grab a bus down to Turk and Eddy to The Albatross, one of the best used books stores I've ever seen. But, life goes on.

quote:

Originally posted by berto:
I’m on BART heading to SF right now. I could make a half hour video showing a thriving SF. I could make a half hour video showing SF being a half step from the end of the world. The truth is somewhere in between. SF has a lot of problems. It’s always had a lot of problems. There are more problems and they’re getting more screen time than there were prior to the pandemic. A visitor could come and have a great time. A visitor could come and leave early bowing to never return. It’s part expectation, part experience, and part luck. It always has been. Things are currently tilted to needing a quicker swivel and a higher tolerance for urban bullshit. SF has never been Disney.

The way you have written that it seems like SF hasn't changed at all because it has always been like that. I'm not sure if it's intentional or not. From an outsiders perspective that goes to SF every other year for business it's been dramatically different every time I have gone, definitely not for the better. It's a shame really because it used to be my favorite city to visit. It's can still be awesome but you need to know a lot more now than 10 years ago and you could have a fantastic time without even thinking or questioning what you're going to be doing.

That is spot on. I also business travel to various cities in California for the last 24 years. Sacramento is a good example of how bad it has gotten in California. The trail system around Sacramento is really good. Every year I watched the encampments grow. Now you can literally go miles and the wooded areas are all homeless encampments. It is awful. Anyone pretending its not that bad or it’s always been like this is just wrong.

I grew up in the Bay Area and never thought I would leave. Now you couldn’t pay me to go back. 3 sisters and my mom have left as well. California is on a huge decline.

wow