Being as some garages give this little task to a employee who might be less than a fully schooled mechanic. I asked them to please set the lug nuts at 76 foot pounds. I watched as the guy barely pushed down in a high quality torque wrench with his thumb, one lug after another. He had already impacted the lugs down to who knows what. So, today being a warm day, I decided to visit a friends garage and borrow some space and tools. The damn lugs wouldnt break loose with a breaker bar and a 3 foot pipe. I took the van right back to the garage which mounted the tires. After a brief conversation with the owner, he got them loose with a Cornwell impact socket and a large sledge hammer. He finished them with a SnapOn impact wrench. I guess another day for my brakes. I dont understand why its just not part of their job to do this correctly when the manufacturer has standards for wheel nut torque, the customer requests it then, pays for it. Sure glad I havnt had to deal with a tire change on the shoulder of the road because I never could have loosened the damn lug nuts.
|Drill Here, Drill Now|
They're notorious for having large air compressors and putting their impact guns on the highest setting. In other words, pure laziness.
When I do it in my garage, I put the impact gun on the lowest or 2nd lowest setting. Gets everything cinched up, and leaves me some manual labor with the torque wrench.
Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity
DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.
They might change their proceedures after a personal injury lawsuit involving someone's tires coming off.
|Dances With |
Torque Sticks. They claim they are using Torque Sticks and it's perfectly fine, no worries, do it all the time, it's all ok.
The problem is, I know better and realize that they are NOT using a torque stick, just a regular extension, or just a socket on the anvil of the air gun. And often they're using the wrong torque stick that has a much higher torque value than needed for the particular application. If you ask to see their set of torque sticks, they usually can't produce it, some are lost or broken, the others are scattered around and not easily found.
They've not been trained right, don't know any better than what they've been told, or trained, or just flat out don't give a crap.
I've stood right there are my vehicle and seen this with my own eyes. I've sold torque sticks and other tools and equipment, in and out of shops for years.
Torque Sticks look like a regular extension and the idea behind them is that the metal they're made of will flex and function up to a particular number, about 30% of the desired torque, and thus then the lug nuts are hand tightened with a torque wrench.
Also torque wrenches are abused. They're tossed around, used roughly, etc, and get out of calibration. They need to be treated with kid gloves.
Torque sticks are not well known by the general public, but they are not a rare and exotic item, even Harbor Freight sells them. HERE IS ONE RETAILER
There at tons of YouTube videos, internet articles, training websites, etc, that discuss torque sticks. You can easily google that if would like to learn more. Here is one example:
LINK TO TORQUE STICKS
"The first step in attaching a wheel to a vehicle is to start the hardware by hand, making sure the bolts go on smoothly and evenly. After that, an impact wrench fitted with an impact torque stick can speed the wheel-mounting process.
Torque sticks, also known as torque-limiting extension bars, come in sets, each in a different thickness and color. The thicker the stick, the higher the torque to the fastener.
The amount of force on the bolt is managed by its design. The torque stick will twist, flex or bend at a certain torque foot/pound threshold. This prevents the nut to be tightened past the intended torque.
It’s important to note that while torque sticks can be a time-saver, they are not exact by nature. Most experts recommend using a torque stick to get to about 70% of the way there, then switching to a manual method to finish. The final torque specified value is best reached by using a calibrated torque wrench.
Speed is the biggest benefit to using a torque stick, allowing technicians to complete the mounting process more quickly. Of course, this is assuming the tools are used properly and are accurate.
For those who choose to use the torque sticks through the lug-tightening process, be sure to double-check the settings with a torque wrench once the vehicle is on the ground, assuming you’re able to.
Tightening the hardware fully with impact guns fitted with torque sticks often prevents using a click-type torque wrench to confirm the specified amount of torque is present. While a click-type torque wrench can identify when the correct torque has been reached, it cannot diagnose excessive torque.
There are those who reject the use of impact guns or torque sticks when installing wheels, citing that impact guns can damage hardware and wheel finishes. Also, impact gun torque can vary widely, from low torque to extremely high torque, resulting in everything from loose wheels to hardware damage."
^^^ when using torque sticks, it's very important to set the correct air settings.
They work great with wind up 12 volt cigar impact wrenches.
However, battery powered impacts will over torque the fasteners.
Air can either be high or low depending on air pressure and the specific air wrench.
I have a set and they do work, but they have their limitations.
If I owned a tire shop, you can bet your ass the guys would be using torque wrenches!
I used to recommend Discount Tire to anyone and everyone.
They filled my right front tire to 20 pounds over the limit on two separate occasions,
I stopped giving them my business.
Safety, Situational Awareness and proficiency.
Neck Ties, Hats and ammo brass, Never ,ever touch'em w/o asking first
|Not really from Vienna|
In my experience, it’s rare to find a tire store employee that doesn’t use their impact wrench and torque wrench incorrectly, in the manner described by the OP. Many of them are apparently so stupid they can’t understand the reason for doing it the right way.
Shops should have some form of a chart to go by at a minimum. Maybe not a collage education in torque but, something to go by. Heck, for chemicals we have haz/mat basics and a MSDS on most facilities. I think its high time for those in the tire, wheel and brake industry to apply a little knowledge in their trades. See, I just invented a whole new industry, teaching this to shop workers. Make learning and useing it a required standard.
Unfortunately over torquing lug nuts and over inflating tires seems to be fairly common at tire shops.
No car is as much fun to drive, as any motorcycle is to ride.
Opposite experience with 2 separate DT stores local to me.
They get everything snugged up & finish off with a torque wrench.
Air pressures are typically whatever is set on the mfg placard on the door jamb.
Only time I've had issue was when they refused to install tires on my old Acura TL.
They claimed that the studs would snap if they removed the lugs.
Drove it home, manually removed the wheels & put them in my wife's car & took them loose to DT. They installed the tires no problem.
I did break 2 studs on 1 hub. Put the car out of commission for a couple days while I got it fixed [DIY].
The Enemy's gate is down.
|Gone but Together Again.|
Dad & Uncle
At my local Sams Club, they use the impact to get it close and then the torque wrench.
Then a 2nd employee checks it with the torque wrench a second time to ensure it properly torqued.
Plus had them put new wheels on the Jeep this time. They had me come back after 100 miles or so for a lug nut torque check. Took about five minutes in the drive-through lane.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
"The dominant media is no more ``mainstream`` than leftists are liberals." -- me
Had a DT employee use the gun about 13 years ago, and ruin a wheel stud on my STi. Ever since, I request the manager, insist on manual only, torque wrench, no gun, and I tip. No big money just give them lunch money. I have to do the car and the truck soon, need balance and rotation done on both. I’ll ATM a $20 and do them back to back.
I had the issue on the STi fixed at the dealer that I trusted then drove up to DT immediately and requested it be paid for by them. Manager at the time was royally pissed that I got it done at the dealer and was adamant that I could have got it done “cheaper” elsewhere. I told him you fucked my vehicle up, and I’m not taking it to anyone else but the dealer so deal with it. He actually took cash out of the register and paid me. And he was visibly very upset. I didn’t care. Haven’t had an issue since.
What am I doing? I'm talking to an empty telephone
|I Deal In Lead|
Looks like individual experiences with Discount Tire varies by location, so it's the usual. If the guy managing the place insists it gets done right, it will. If he doesn't, it won't. I've seen this in oil change places and Airport Parking places and other places all my life.
My local DT does a great job and I couldn't appreciate them more.
I had purchased some tires for my SUV at Costco. Watched as they looked up the torque value on some computer program they had. Don't know how they achieved it, however.
Yep, I've been to tire shops where the techs told me the recommended tire pressure for my vehicle was not what is specified on the sticker in the door jam but the maximum pressure listed on the tire's sidewall.
My local tire store that I’ve always used uses the gun and then goes around with a torque wrench. My last visit they were using Milwaukee battery operated guns. Once I saw those I went and bought myself a DeWalt Impact wrench. DeWalt since I have plenty of DeWalt batteries. I’m too damn old and weak to break loose 140 foot pound lug nuts anymore! So now I carry the gun and a fresh battery and my torque wrench in my truck tool box.
Neither here nor there, but my Milwaukee impact gun has a setting that spins full speed until it snugs up the nut and then stops at hand tight. On reverse, it impacts at full power and as soon as the nut breaks away it slows down and spins the nut off slowly under control. It's pretty slick.
|Buy that Classic SIG in All Stainless,|
No rail wear will be painless.
I still do all of my oil changes, most vehicle service work, and tire rotations at home. I am retired and will take as long as needed to do it correctly the first time.
What virtually all shops miss, you are supposed to take a putty knife or gasket scraper and clean/scrape the surfaces of the disk brake rotor or drum where the wheel/brake interface is located
and remove all loose rust and/or aluminum corrosion. The lug studs also need to be wire brushed.
Only when the interface surfaces are clean with no loose material, and the lug studs/nuts free of loose corrosion will you achieve proper clamping forces on the wheels, and accurate lug nut torque.
No shop or dealer will do this due to the time required. They would be soon out of business.
We've had problems at the local Jeep dealership. We no longer do ANY business there. Assholes!
Lug nuts severely over tightened. I ruined several MAC Tools impact sockets removing over-torqued lug nuts.
We've also had lug nuts loosen and do damage to lug studs and aluminum wheels while driving.
I approached the General Manager about reimbursement for the damages they caused and told him I would stand in the public right of way at the nearby road intersection with a sign.
The sign would have stated "Jeep service sucks here" and he glared at me for a few seconds, and paid for the repairs needed.
Flat rate should be outlawed! I drive triple the distance when I need Jeep parts as that dealer is competent, fair and honest.
NRA Benefactor Life Member
USPSA Chief Range Officer
In the Spring, I am buying better quality lug nuts. The Toyota nuts have a thin metal cap on their end and one of those collapsed inside the impact socket. I noticed the hex surface is very shallow when compared to after market solid nuts. I'll change rear brakes tomorrow and studs will get anti seize.
|Powered by Social Strata|