More post needed...this could be really entertaining!!

quote:

Originally posted by Fredward:
Call bullshit all you like. Most contractors are crooks. Don’t like it, tough. I’ve had my share of drunken painters, speed freak carpenters, and no-show roofers. Small contracts get jobbed out to Lowe’s, bigger ones as i described. If that makes you butt hurt, too bad. Go get a real job.

And what's a real job ? punching someone else time clock because you can only handle one small task? You hire the cheapest contractors and expect excellent service. The problem isn't the contractor it's you and your tight wallet. The old saying Get what you pay for. My guess is that you hire people who are not license bonded and insured. "small contracts get jobbed out to Lowe's" there is your problem right there no contractor worth anything would work for Lowes.

With your kind of attitude going into a project you deserve to get screwed. If you think even for a second that we haven't heard and seen all of the angles home owners try to get something for free then your very naïve. I have been in business for 33 years and within 2 minutes can tell if I want the job or not just by meeting you.

So go ahead keep lumping all the contractors as crooks. One would think a person who is smart as you are wouldn't hire "drunken painters or speed freak carpenters", but obvisly a person like yourself with a "REAL JOB" cant handle that task very well either.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: XLT,

quote:

Originally posted by XLT:

quote:

Originally posted by Rustpot:

you just described the race to the bottom, and that's why you experience that, like most customers who are always looking for the cheapest bid and bitching because they didnt get the best product or service. Now your going to tell me you accepted the middle of the road or the highest bid right? I call bullshit!!

For the roof I think it was $1100 more than the lowest bid. Still quite a bit below the highest one I got.

Most of the people I hire I don't cross-quote. The aforementioned carpet guy I was dealing with was a friend of a friend. As was the roofer. The last independent mechanic I used was a local gentleman who does maintenance at the local golf courses and does auto repair out of his garage. My well/water treatment guy is my neighbor. My garbage pickup company is a local small outfit that I pay more to use than some of the big names in the area. I bought my lawnmower from an independent power equipment outfit in town, and paid a bit more for it than I could have for a comparable unit at a big box store. I shop at a local independent grocery store as much as I can over the large chain stores. I pay more in insurance because the agency is in town and I can call Joe instead of a 1-800 number and wait on hold all day. I use an independent financial adviser that charges monthly fees when I could go to my bank and talk to some schlub for free because I've known him my whole life. I get my taxes done by a friend that charges more than TurboTax or H&R block.

If you can show up and do a good job on time at the quoted cost I will pay. It seems I end up paying more regardless of whether I shop around, so I shop for people, not prices.

I'm sure if you read this thread and said "hey, that doesn't describe me at all" then you're not the piece of shit deadbeats people are complaining about.

quote:

Originally posted by XLT:
You just described the race to the bottom, and that's why you experience that, like most customers who are always looking for the cheapest bid and bitching because they didnt get the best product or service. Now your going to tell me you accepted the middle of the road or the highest bid right? I call bullshit!!

I had a couple of bathrooms remodeled. I did use a middle-of-the-pack bid. Licensed, insured, established contractor. He gave me a bid, then told me if there were problems, which he expected, here are the mitigations.

He did a great job. I have since used him on other things, and he recommends companies for things he doesn't do (e.g., garage door repair). I now consider him a friend, and have coffee with him regularly, or at least what passes for "regular" given my schedule.

Oh, and I pay him promptly. This probably helps.

So, to XLT's point, you get what you pay for.

quote:

Originally posted by Fredward:
Call bullshit all you like. Most contractors are crooks. Don’t like it, tough. I’ve had my share of drunken painters, speed freak carpenters, and no-show roofers. Small contracts get jobbed out to Lowe’s, bigger ones as i described. If that makes you butt hurt, too bad. Go get a real job.

Fuck off asshole.

Well this went down hill fast..... I would not work for some of y'all.

I've been a self employed one man operation for over 37 years...

Here is the secret to running a successful business of any size, just two rules:

Show up on time and do what you said you were going to do.

This did go downhill and it makes me sad. It's not meant as a bash on all contractors, just that I've been having bad luck.

Look there are assholes and bad workers in every profession. There are also good people in every profession. I think the type of work has a lot to do with scheduling issues.

But hey, if you go back to my house being built thread everyone said it would never be done in 2 months. I got more warnings than you could shake a stick at. Well it was done, on time and not really any issues.

Anyhow we are on track again. There will be some delays but the sub is going to frame the basement this weekend. Then we are on vacation and they continue when we come back.

quote:

Show up on time and do what you said you were going to do.

^^^^^^
Self employed business as well. Lets add, charge a fair and reasonable price.

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Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:

quote:

Show up on time and do what you said you were going to do.

^^^^^^
Self employed business as well. Lets add, charge a fair and reasonable price.

ALSO- return phone calls and emails within 24 hours. The sooner the better. No future customer wants to keep calling you or wait days and days.

I'm self employed and have been for almost 20 years. Some industries like mine charging a reasonable price means nothing to some people. I used to get "future" customers I didn't want at any price and would quote them double/even triple and they'd still want me to do the job......or I'd tell them I'm too busy and they'd just offer more and more money until I said yes. One time about 15 years ago, there was a job I absolutely didn't want and normal rate for it was $350-400 for the day back then, the guy offered $500 (no), $750 (no), $1000 and I caved and did it. From then on, the 3 days a year he used the yacht, he paid me the same......LOL.... I finally learned you just have to say NO, to customers or yachts you don't want to work on. But the other 3 are KEY in order to be successful being self employed.

I too know within 2 minutes of whether or not I want the customer.

Good work isn't cheap. Cheap work isn't good.

I want quality work and will pay for it.

quote:

Originally posted by OKCGene:
Good work isn't cheap. Cheap work isn't good.

I want quality work and will pay for it.

There's cheap, fast, and quality...….you can only have 2 out of the 3, so which 2 do you want!

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Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by OKCGene:
Good work isn't cheap. Cheap work isn't good.

I want quality work and will pay for it.

There's cheap, fast, and quality...….you can only have 2 out of the 3, so which 2 do you want!

Jimmy, I think that phrase goes differently..otherwise I’ll take the cheap and quality option..

In assessing a potential job with a homeowner whose expectations exceeded their budget, I would inquire as to how long they wanted plumbing in their house.
They were sometimes advised to call back when the water reached their neck.

Contractors that can't keep a schedule....or return phone calls or e-mails.

quote:

Originally posted by XLT:

quote:

Originally posted by Fredward:
Call bullshit all you like. Most contractors are crooks. Don’t like it, tough. I’ve had my share of drunken painters, speed freak carpenters, and no-show roofers. Small contracts get jobbed out to Lowe’s, bigger ones as i described. If that makes you butt hurt, too bad. Go get a real job.

And what's a real job ? punching someone else time clock because you can only handle one small task? You hire the cheapest contractors and expect excellent service. The problem isn't the contractor it's you and your tight wallet. The old saying Get what you pay for. My guess is that you hire people who are not license bonded and insured. "small contracts get jobbed out to Lowe's" there is your problem right there no contractor worth anything would work for Lowes.

With your kind of attitude going into a project you deserve to get screwed. If you think even for a second that we haven't heard and seen all of the angles home owners try to get something for free then your very naïve. I have been in business for 33 years and within 2 minutes can tell if I want the job or not just by meeting you.

So go ahead keep lumping all the contractors as crooks. One would think a person who is smart as you are wouldn't hire "drunken painters or speed freak carpenters", but obvisly a person like yourself with a "REAL JOB" cant handle that task very well either.

XLT you nailed it my brother!
I have owned a construction company for 37 years started working out of my house and grew from there.
Our clientele over the last 15 or 20 years have been very successful businessmen and women who we built highly customized home for in the 5000 to 8000 SF range.

The very first thing I did was to have a meeting to find out what kind of client they might be and as you said you can find out in 15 minutes if they were going to be great to work with or be a complete asshole.

I have stopped the meeting and told several couples that there is no way I could meet your unrealistic expectations so you best just leave now....

Strangely enough people who were truly successful and wealthy appreciated finding someone who was professional and did not mind paying for it...
You get what you pay for...

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

ALSO- return phone calls and emails within 24 hours. The sooner the better. No future customer wants to keep calling you or wait days and days.....

So very true..
Short story, about 10 years agoI got a call from a guy in NYC about building his custom home here at SML. He said he had the plans drawn up and ready to go so I said I’d be glad to take a look at them.
He emailed them to me a few minutes later and within 15 minutes I told him that yes I would love to build his home but these plans are not build able and that the house would actually fall down. ( no support for the very long ridge beam).

He was not a person that was used to people telling him things he didn’t want to hear and he said he’d think about it...

The next day he called me back and was very polite and asked me to explain my reason....I quickly got over his head and he asked me if I could send him the computations I made to justify my conclusion. I did and after a few hours he agreed with me and we went from there.

I later found out that he was a CFO of one of the to investment firms in NY and his son, who lived in CA was a civil engineer. He sent the info I gave him to his son who quickly agreed with me.

The client told me he spent $40,000 to have the plans drawn up ...which were worthless.. and asked me how much would it cost to “fix” the mistakes. I estimated between $3500 and $4000 and he gave us the go ahead..

We later found out that of the three contractors he contacted one had a full voicemail, one never returned his call and I was left...

That was a multi million home...

Regarding the posts regarding time and homeowner expectations: We had good recommendations for this guy. He came to our house. We showed him everything we wanted to do. He gave us a quote and said when he could do it and how long it would take.

We accepted the quote without haggle. We even took a few things off his plate as far as cost because we wanted some specific items such as lights and doors. We signed a contract. Then the delays hit. As my fiancé said, it seems like we are the only ones really on the hook for contracts, not the builders.

Now I have to say we are on track, not to the original dates but close. We will not likely have our basement done for a big party we are having on April 4th. But he is making a strong effort to get it done. Framing will be done Tuesday.

quote:

Originally posted by frayedends:
Regarding the posts regarding time and homeowner expectations: We had good recommendations for this guy. He came to our house. We showed him everything we wanted to do. He gave us a quote and said when he could do it and how long it would take.

We accepted the quote without haggle. We even took a few things off his plate as far as cost because we wanted some specific items such as lights and doors. We signed a contract. Then the delays hit. As my fiancé said, it seems like we are the only ones really on the hook for contracts, not the builders.

Now I have to say we are on track, not to the original dates but close. We will not likely have our basement done for a big party we are having on April 4th. But he is making a strong effort to get it done. Framing will be done Tuesday.

You can always put some sort of time clause in the contract (be realistic and give the contractor some wiggle room). If the job is not completed by this date and meets code inspection X amount per day will be deducted.

quote:

Originally posted by Fredward:
Call bullshit all you like. Most contractors are crooks. Don’t like it, tough. I’ve had my share of drunken painters, speed freak carpenters, and no-show roofers. Small contracts get jobbed out to Lowe’s, bigger ones as i described. If that makes you butt hurt, too bad. Go get a real job.

The more I read this statement, the more it boils my blood, as it's the furthest from the truth IF you're not trying to hire the cheapest laborer in town. I have a BS in Finance from FAU, but have been self employed for almost of my adult life. I'm on my 4th business, all of them successful. I have been in my industry for around 20 years. Have owned and run my business for 16 years. Without knowing you, I can almost guarantee that I most likely have a much higher income and net worth than you. I netted 6 figures every single year through the entire recession in a pure luxury industry, just to give you an idea . I go out and work in the field every day, get my hands dirty fixing/maintaining systems and yachts, aside from running yachts as Captain etc. I don't sit behind a desk and just order employees around.

That being said, any industry/business is going to have the losers/drunks/druggies/etc., but there are A LOT of good trades people, that are reliable, responsible, fair, and fairly priced. Remember something, in order for any business to justify an employee, the benefits to the company has to be about 3x what the employees are getting paid. Employees ARE the biggest issue in my business and most all businesses. While I have always paid my employees well, $20-30 hr, and I've had a lot of very good employees over the years, there isn't one of them that was as good as I am at every aspect that my business does (some might be better at one thing, but not several others), they'd be doing what I do and making what I make.

That being said, look at how many really good contractors are on this board and give everyone free advice. There are a lot of really good contractors out their in any industry, but you have to pay the going rate.

Here's the bigger issue. Reputable contractors HAVE to charge more. WHY, because they have a REAL business, real business expenses, insurance expenses, business licenses, pay for training to keep current in their industry, they own real equipment to do a great job, all of this costs money and since Obamacare and other stuff......some things in the past 5-10 years cost us a hell of a lot more money, like health insurance.

But in the end, you get exactly what you pay for.

a really good contractor ,here in tiny town went through 8 "carpenters" in 3 years.

He wanted to train them to do the job right,
The three who wanted to learn, had scheduling nightmares, then three who could work full days
had to do the job their way, (right or wrong)
and two were drunks and druggies.

So now he works alone,
one job at a time , 6 days a week.
His waiting list is three years out,

will replace a window or add a whole new addition to a home.

26 years in the buisness