thing about being a stocking dealer is the sheer variety out now,

think about it, just SIG alone, then add Kimber, Henry, etc etc,

16 versions each of one model pistol/rifle (I slightly exaggerate, but think about finish, sight, etc options)

you cannot just have one, cause the customer will not want the display model, they want new in the box, untouched since it left the factory etc etc,


hard to justify keeping that kind of inventory in stock, financially

Yes, I got out the yellow pages and called most of them.

This thread keeps veering toward the weeds. My original gripe was not being able to examine the expensive item before purchasing, not that I couldn't find a place to order one.

Update: I relented and went to my closest brickn' morter and placed an order. Should be in this week.

I experienced first hand the closing of a shop due to not being able to compete with a big discount outfit.

In the mid-eighties, I worked part time on weekends, holidays and sometimes after hours at a friends gun store in N. Dallas. This was in addition to my regular job and was mainly to fund my reloading and gun collecting hobby. I really looked forward to coming in on Sat. A.M. and checking the used rack to see what interesting items came in during the week.

This was a high-end store in a VERY upscale N. Dallas neighborhood, N.Preston Rd. in George W. Bush's neck
of the woods. We had Dallas Cowboys, Movie actors (Chuck Norris) come in frequently and at Christmas, wealthy housewives 3-deep at the counter buying up our most expensive over&unders as fast as we could write them up. We
had some interesting out of towners, as well...a group of Russian mafia, Israeli commandos shopping for crossbows, Bosnians(or Serbs) wanting us to sell and ship .300 Win mags overseas (we declined). Fond memories of a real gunshop in a better time.

A big discount outfit opened up just North of us on Central Expressway and we just couldn't match their prices. We installed scopes for free on rifles we sold. "Customers" would come to our shop get educated, go buy at the discount store and bring their rifle and scope for us to mount for free! We didn't want to, but our owner said do it..they will probably come back in the future and buy from us.....they didn't.

Sorry about the long winded post. I guess I just miss the kid-in-the-toy store excitement of walking in a gun store and seeing long racks of every kind of firearm.
I know such places exist but not like in the past...FOR WHATEVER REASON.

Yeah, I get it. The shop where I kinda work is owned by friends. I'm down to 4 to 8 hours a week, it's so slow. Fortunately, it's a hobby. I just feel bad for my buddies why have their times mortgaged. Thank goodness for archery sales.

There is no doubt that the internet is killing local retailers. The only way to compete is to have stuff in stock for people that want it now. If a store has to order it, the customer might as well order it himself for much less. Avoiding being the showroom for internet shoppers is the problem. No great answer.

But I am curious about the “big box stores” a few people have mentioned. I see Bass Pro and Cabelas with pretty much high retail pricing, not discounted.

In the 80’s big box stores were hurting local retailers. Today the internet is killing the big box stores. Especially electronics and hardware.

Honestlou, Exactly right.

I wonder though if, because of ridiculously high shipping charges now coupled with state sales tax on internet orders, will this contribute to the survival or possible revival of brick and morter?

I've been able to pick up very good sale prices from my local BassPro. Granted, I had to wait in line for a couple of hours before getting served, but the price savings was worth it. Last year, I waited over 2 hours to get a Kimber pistol for under $700. It has been phenominal!!! No gripes here!!

quote:

Originally posted by ARMT Guy:

quote:

Originally posted by mesabi:
OP: Did you look at the Henry website that shows the multitude of Henry dealers in the Houston area and try contacting them?

This.

I've run across a fair number of customers over the years in which this never occured to them.

If you have read this thread you will see I called damn near every store in town. They all offer to order. Their inventory is their distributor's warehouse. Those stocking Henry dealers might have a single .22 or centerfire at best, or not. But they can order me one!

The last several guns I have purchased, besides those at gun shows, had to be ordered and none were anything exotic or out of the ordinary, including a new Ruger Single-six. Pretty ordinary. Even the "Biggest Damn Whatever" only had a few used ones, missing the Long Rifle cylinders, in rough shape and at higher than suggested retail for a new one. And NO, these were NOT 3-screw collectors items.

Yeah, I guess I'm just out of date and looking for the wrong gun. If I were looking for a new AR or Glock 17, I wouldn't have to look far. But I'm bored stiff with these mundane items. I gave my last AR to my grandson before thanksgiving along with almost a thousand rounds of ammo. I hadn't shot the damned thing in nearly two years and I go to my gun club weekly. I saw a quote in another shooters forum that expressed my sentiments exactly...."In the early 1990's, I was the only guy at the range shooting an AR. Now I'm the only guy at the range shooting a lever action".


No instant gratification these days ... not many shops that have a large enough new and used inventory to browse in search of that unexpected find that you can't live without. Pawn shops are far more interesting.

Update...

The rifle was supposed to deliver today. It didn't happen. The gal at the shop said the invoice came in, but no box. The owner is working with the distributor for an answer/solution. They only had this happen once before and it worked out ok, but "that was with a small box and this is a big box". w They are good people and I can't be mad, just a little disappointed.
Kinda goes to show.

I dont mind at all. I like getting a new unmolested gun.

And I get it for the lowest price in town!! 2 days is nothing! of course times will be longer during the holidays!!

quote:

Originally posted by shovelhead:


Then when the LGS closes up it's amazing how many will wring their hands lamenting the loss of the small store. But those were the same ones that would never spend a dollar there, instead they went to the big box store. But they could sure ask for advice and information before they went to the box store. Then after they would buy they would come back bragging about their "great deal".

We are a small dealer compared to many, but we do a lot of gun shows and I can definitely relate to this because people will come and play with and check out our guns then say “can you match this online retailer” to which we have to reply no, because a lot of these online retailers are much bigger and get a better deal + they are ok making $5 on a gun because all they have to do is ship it and it’s just not worth the local stores time to do the work required to sell a gun for a $5 profit when they could just do the transfer from the online retailer and make $20-50 depending on where in the country they are and they don’t have to tie up their own capital in the product. So I can definitely see why a lot of small LGS don’t even want to carry new stock and mainly just stick with used and consignments and ordering new product in whenever necessary for a customer

Before I got my Ffl I would always get my guns from the same dealer even though I knew I could save $20-30 online even with the transfer fee and stuff, but I enjoyed spending time inside the shop and talking with the guys in there. Occasionally there’s that palmetto (or similar) deal that’s just too good to pass up, but when all of peoples shopping is done online it makes it very unappealing you stock new products

quote:

Originally posted by Kskelton:

quote:

Originally posted by shovelhead:


Then when the LGS closes up it's amazing how many will wring their hands lamenting the loss of the small store. But those were the same ones that would never spend a dollar there, instead they went to the big box store. But they could sure ask for advice and information before they went to the box store. Then after they would buy they would come back bragging about their "great deal".

We are a small dealer compared to many, but we do a lot of gun shows and I can definitely relate to this because people will come and play with and check out our guns then say “can you match this online retailer” to which we have to reply no, because a lot of these online retailers are much bigger and get a better deal + they are ok making $5 on a gun because all they have to do is ship it and it’s just not worth the local stores time to do the work required to sell a gun for a $5 profit when they could just do the transfer from the online retailer and make $20-50 depending on where in the country they are and they don’t have to tie up their own capital in the product. So I can definitely see why a lot of small LGS don’t even want to carry new stock and mainly just stick with used and consignments and ordering new product in whenever necessary for a customer

Before I got my Ffl I would always get my guns from the same dealer even though I knew I could save $20-30 online even with the transfer fee and stuff, but I enjoyed spending time inside the shop and talking with the guys in there. Occasionally there’s that palmetto (or similar) deal that’s just too good to pass up, but when all of peoples shopping is done online it makes it very unappealing you stock new products

I agree.

But those "gun stores" that are really just a computer linked to a wholesale warehouse won't be missed when they go out of business.

The shop through which I ordered the Henry is not much more than this. The owner and his distributor are currently scurrying around trying to find the rifle I have paid for in full.

quote:

Originally posted by Fredward:
Everybody wants to handle, touch, feel, etc, nobody wants to pay. In a few years, if trends continue, there will be no stocked storefronts, or damn few.

Adding to your thought- everyone wants to handle, touch, feel, dryfire, etc but when they are ready to buy, they want a brand new one in a box that has been untouched by any hands since it left the factory.

Thus, the retailer must carry additional inventory or they end up being the (uncompensated) showroom because the customer ends up ordering a 'new one' online.

quote:

Originally posted by Brazos Dan:
Update...

The rifle was supposed to deliver today. It didn't happen. The gal at the shop said the invoice came in, but no box. The owner is working with the distributor for an answer/solution. They only had this happen once before and it worked out ok, but "that was with a small box and this is a big box". w They are good people and I can't be mad, just a little disappointed.
Kinda goes to show.

Hope it worked out smoothly. Let us know how you like it.

quote:

Originally posted by SR:

quote:

Originally posted by Fredward:
Everybody wants to handle, touch, feel, etc, nobody wants to pay. In a few years, if trends continue, there will be no stocked storefronts, or damn few.

Adding to your thought- everyone wants to handle, touch, feel, dryfire, etc but when they are ready to buy, they want a brand new one in a box that has been untouched by any hands since it left the factory.

Thus, the retailer must carry additional inventory or they end up being the (uncompensated) showroom because the customer ends up ordering a 'new one'
online.

Possibly an extreme example of handling and not buying:

Several years ago, after retirement, I worked part time in a shop well stocked with new guns.

The long gun racks were lined across the back wall with long guns at floor level and eye level....BEHIND the sales people and registers! This shop was in an older and dubvious neighborhood. It crossed my mind that all a robber would have to do is walk in with some ammo, go behind us, load up and rob us.

One Saturday, Bubba, Lurleen and their inbred crew (about 5 total) came in, marched single file down the racks and jacked the actions on EVERY long gun, passing them down the line one after the other. Kind of a Saturday outing for them. Then, Bubba gives us a parting smirk as they paraded out. Scorched my asp but the owners didn't care.

All of their "new guns" showed more handling wear that my long guns that were hunted hard in the field for decades.

Yeah, they won't be missed. Until you get it down to one gun store per locale, who can now charge 200 bucks for your transfer. Or you need someone to look at your malfunctioning gun, or mount night sights, or a scope. Or any one of the many services offered, often at low or no cost. Yeah, get it "cheaper" online.

As some of you here know I was a career GM dealership parts counterman, 47 years of it. The last five years got truly miserable, the last personnel realignment of the department took the dedicated front counter position away, we “all” took turns, in reality only a couple of us got stuck with that duty though.

Always had tire kickers in the past but today with the Internet it has risen to worst levels. Used to be that in most dealerships I worked at we had some “wiggle room” on pricing, that last one was a no go on that.

With the Internet things have gotten ridiculous, dealers offering an online catalog and price levels that at one time were only available to employees of the stores, sometimes “less”, the less being make up on the shipping and handling charges.

So as prices get squeezed, profits follow, pay packages get cut, experienced people (like myself) see their pay drop and we move on or retire. Then the new crop come in, the ones that worked at chain auto parts stores that can find there way around a electric parts catalog but that’s about all. Give them a problem child and they are lost. Sure there is technical assistance but while they have competent people there some still have the skill set of the low experience counterparts. And they have to tow the factory line “If it was not equipped that way from the factory you cannot do it”, so much for adding roof marker lights on a truck not so equipped or upgrading radios, I just did that in my Jeep despite FCA dealers saying it cannot be done.

GM dealers do not even decide themselves what parts to carry and how much on hand inventory to have either, all this is done through the mother ship. Oh, dealers don’t have to participate but there are strong financial reasons to. Together with the online catalogs and automated systems available to repair shops allowing them to look up their own parts and place the orders with their required part numbers, many of those parts at a steeper discount. GM wants their dealers to participate, monies come back to the deal ship from the manufacturer in the form of compensation, guess what, many of the dealers exemp that money from employee packages so we would still get to follow the online order, pull the item, invoice it, load it on the delivery truck, process paperwork, verify all is correct AND deal with later problems like we always did in the case of customer ordering the wrong part, defective part, lost by the driver, left at the wrong place, complaints about time of delivery, driver was in a bad mood, etc., all at less money. Oh, or I forgot, the famous call in five minutes before closing “I gotta have that tonight, hey, you live near here, can you drop it off on your way home?” Sure, be glad to work off clock, then you walk in and the customer hands you several hundred dollars of parts that he “has been meaning to send back but hasn’t had the time so now you have money that is not yours sitting in your POV and you don’t have a garage space so you either take it back to the store and leave it inside or you risk leaving it outside on your car overnight risking theft or you take inside your home, those dirty dusty ass parts that had
E been laying in his shop for six months. And then you fine out after all this that about a third of those parts were never purchased from your store, verified by sales history check or the fact that he did not even try to disguise this fact by pulling off the other dealers factory delivery tag, happened all the time. And then when you go to send it back to him with this information the old “help me out, I’m a good customer” line comes out.

This and more tales I can tell, I could go on all day. Gun business is the same, just different products and incidents, money squeeze stays the same.

quote:

Originally posted by Brazos Dan:

All of their "new guns" showed more handling wear that my long guns that were hunted hard in the field for decades.

There was once a day back in the mid 1990s when S&W came out with a stainless 44. They called it a 696, better known as a "no dash". But I got there when they opened the shipment. I liked it, so I paid cash on the barrel head. But there was a hang up, it was the slick willy days and there was a waiting period. So my shiny new gun went to purgatory for 10 days.

I waited as patiently as I could. But finally after a painful wait, I went to pick it up. I opened the box and saw a filthy mess. Like some idiot had fired a case of handloads with a terrible powder that smoked. It was a real mess and took over an hour to just make it look like a new gun. Yes, that store has a range and rental guns. I've been back a few times, but not seriously thinking about buying.

I bet I'd spent a few thousand bucks in that store in the years before. They were a stocking dealer. Guess stocking means different things. I bought a new gun, but they delivered a used one. Like buying a car from Hertz.

Rifle still hasn't delivered, or as far as the store can tell, it hasn't shipped. Supposedy, 2 large wholesalers in Texas closed their doors, causing the remaining wholesalers get get backed-up on deliveries.

They expect (or hope) it will ship Monday and arrive about Wed. Again, certainly no instant gratification or spontaneous purchases but nothing anyone can do about it and no fault.

All I can do is be patient. Only thing, this will be a gift from my wife of 54 yrs who has been excited about this gift and now she is quietly unhappy and disappointed that this has not been a great experience so far. This kinda makes me unhappy as well. It all goes back to not one such rifle being available in-store in the whole damn city of Houston.

Per American Rifleman the Big Boy in 357 magnum weighs in at 8 lbs. and the balance point is the joint between the forearm and receiver.

In simple terms it will be very similar in weight and balance to a 12 gage Browning Citori with a 28 inch barrel.

Note, it is a bit heavy for a 357 Magnum levergun. I have a Octagon barreled 1904 vintage 1892 that was re-barreled in 357 Magnum by a previous owner and it weighs in at 6 lbs 15.5 ounces, so it's basically a pound lighter than that Henry. That IMO is a good thing, because my 1892 has the old style crescent butt stock and after 50 rounds of full house magnums it becomes quite painful to shoot.

BTW, checked the balance point on my 1892 when I got it out to weigh and it's a match to the Henry Big Boy as well as a match for my Browning Citori and Beretta 686. Since I bust a fair bit of Clays every weekend with these shotguns I can state with certainty that this particular balance works very well for shooting at moving targets. Yeah, shooting with a 12 gage shotgun with a modern butt stock is hands down vastly more comfortable than shooting with those old crescent butt stocks. I read somewhere on the Net that a shotgun style stock was actually an option for the 1892 way back in the 1890's and I'll bet that every shooter with a good background in actually shooting asked for that particular option. Note the Henry seems to have a stock that is shaped about 1/2 way between the 1892 crescent and a modern sporting shotgun. Should be a good bit more comfortable than the steel buttplate on my 1892 and that extra weight will also ease the recoil.

My advice is that if you have ever shot Trap or Skeet you can go ahead with purchasing this rifle. If you haven't ever done the shotgun sports then get yourself to a shotgun range and start. You will find a lot of the shooters are prefectly willing to loan you a gun and take you out for a bit of training and coaching on how to hit those little orange disks.

quote:

Originally posted by rburg:
They do lose a lot of sales with that practice. I kind of want a P210A, but no one carries them around here. I even ask. They tell me they can get one in that same 2 day time period. So I tell them we should figure out the sales tax and I will put the total in an envelope. In 2 days I'll be back to either pick up my gun or the envelope. They decline because they know they're pieces of shit and won't be able to deliver.

Come on down. There is one in the case here.
Sent you an email.