I seem to have the exact same situation, even down to the numbers. My body doesn't even consider sleep until around 4am, plus or minus (I've heard other insomniacs give this number also, bizarre). Back in the day it was evening Karate classes for me rather than your Judo.

Was on Ambien for a long time. Not a perfect treatment. Wouldn't always work, and when it did was not necessarily quality sleep.

Stopped Ambien early this year as my new insurance didn't cover it, weirdly enough. Reverted to being a total night-owl, generally falling asleep at the proverbial 4am, or often not sleeping at all. Than a few days ago I found a way to score Ambien for about $6/monthly supply, using my existing pharmacy. Being off it for 6 months seems to have erased my built-up tolerance, so it now works for me again, for the time being anyway. We'll see how well it continues.

While the Xanax and Ambien were not the cure, at least I slept more. Falling asleep at 4:00am and getting up at 5:45am for work during the school year make life impossible. My wife and daughter have gone to Georgia for the summer which means I get to get up early to feed the ducks and let them out of their coup. The last two days I let them out at 5:00am as I was already up.
My father in law was my primary doctor until he retired this year. I knew my new doctor would not want to give me extended prescriptions for these medications so I am resigned to go without them. This afternoon I found the Benadryl in the hall closet so I will try that tonight. I'll still have to go out to get Melatonin.

Be sure to stay away from alcohol. An interesting study some years back showed that people who use alcohol as a sleep agent usually get less rest. The rationale was that once the alcohol wears off, the body returns to the tensed or un-relaxed state causing the person to wake up again. I have notices that anytime I have a few too many, and just fall short of passing out in the bed, after 2-3 hours, it's like some slapped me with a wet towel.

I have no trouble sleeping on demand anywhere from 15 minutes to a couple of hours or a full night's sleep. except for times when I get channel fever.

Methods I use when I'm not falling asleep as quick as I want:
1) I think back to one of the times when I was falling asleep. Usually in some weird places but normally in my car in the parking lot during lunch or afternoon break. I remember what it felt like when I was starting to go to sleep during one of those episodes and pretty soon I zzzz... Sometimes I even compound it by thinking back to a time when I couldn't fall asleep and was remembering back to a time prior that and remembering how it was to feel about remembering about a prior time when I was falling asleep.

2) I listen to waves crashing on the beach when I have my amazon prime available or on youtube.

3) I remember my favorite episode of survivor man when he was sledding across a frozen lake in Canada. In that episode, he had to kick two dogs who started to fight. What helps me to sleep is remembering the bedding he made from tree boughs about 3 or 4 feet high. He did that to insulate himself in the cold. I imagine what it must feel like to go to sleep that way and pretty soon I zzzz...

4) For one year to help myself de-stress from the job, I would golf a lot. even as the sun was going down and was getting dark. I remember how it felt like to tee off from the first tee all by myself. Still barely see where the ball lands. I trudge off pushing my cart and the shadows get long. By the time I hole off and start to head off to the second tee on the right, I fall to zzzz...

5) I was in the audience in a hypnotist act at the PO club while stationed in Bremerton, Washington while the Big E was in the yards. I was following the hypnotist's directions where he would have people clench their toes and hold their breath for one minute, then relax, progressively add ankles to the toes of clenching then relaxing, until you were clenching your whole body from your toes to the top of your scalp of your head and holding your breath for a minute and then relaxing, before I get to the point of including the top of my scalp, I would fall to zzz....

Years ago, after recovering from cancer treatments, my body was a wreck from getting all the chemicals out of my system.

Couldn't sleep, so the doctor gave me Ambien.

Terrible, It would make me crash for the first 3 hours, then I would be wide awake the rest of the night.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunset_Va:
Years ago, after recovering from cancer treatments, my body was a wreck from getting all the chemicals out of my system.

Couldn't sleep, so the doctor gave me Ambien.

Terrible, It would make me crash for the first 3 hours, then I would be wide awake the rest of the night.

I had taken Ambien for at least 15 years or longer. I had the same experience, fall asleep and then wake up not able to fall back asleep. Then I took 2 Xanax with the Ambien, then 2 more when I woke up. So I decided to slowly stop taking them. I take Benadryl and an over the counter sleep aide. It still doesn't work. Today I fell asleep at 0600 and up by 0900. I'm exhausted and wish I were still taking the Xanax and Ambien.

 
Another OTC med that, for me anyway, works better than Benadryl is doxylamine succinate. I think "Unisom" is a brand name of this, but you can find the generic (store) brand at CVS, and also a better bargain is to buy the Kirkland brand. The generic is usually labeled "Sleep Aid". If you don't belong to Costco, you can get Kirkland on Amazon (still a bargain vs CVS). Same for the Kirkland brand of diphenhydramine HCL (Benadryl).
 
The doxylamine succinate is the "nighttime" component of Nyquil nighttime cough syrup.
 

I take the Kirkland brand every night. The first time it seemed to work, but after that nothing.

Word of warning, if you have prostrate problems antihistamines can cause problems (hard time peeing).

quote:

Originally posted by dwright1951:
Word of warning, if you have prostrate problems antihistamines can cause problems (hard time peeing).

Also, if you have hypertension , be careful.