In the past, if I had an issue with a vehicle or motorcycle I just took it to the shop to fix. Now I make a lot less money and research and fix what I can. I have realized how much I have gotten ripped off over the years.

My current motorcycle is a 2012 Honda Goldwing and figured the oil would be hard to change like previous bikes. Dealer charges about $130 to change oil on current bike. I finally looked it up and it is simple as hell to change the oil and filter. So now it costs me $60 in parts and 30 minutes of my time.

I have a 2002 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 Z-71 and recently got a code saying a shock sensor in the engine was bad. Shops quoted me around $1,500 to replace the two shock sensors and that is it. I researched it and it was a pain in the ass, but I did it myself for about $500 and that included replacing every seal I encountered along the way since I had to remove the intake manifold along with replacing the oil pressure sensor while I had the top half of the engine off.

Then right after that I started hearing odd sounds as I drove. I took it to a shop and they named all kinds of things it could be and they would have to fix one at a time to determine the cause. I told a neighbor friend who used to be a mechanic and he said it sounded like my wheel bearings needed to be replaced. I researched it and figured I could do it myself. Again, it was a pain but I replaced the wheel bearings, the brake discs, and brake pads for way cheaper than what a shop would have and it totally fixed the problem. I saved a ton of money.

My motorcycle recently needed a rear tire change and they told me I needed new brake pads and I should do it now as that would save a ton of money since they would already have everything off on the rear tire so I did it. Well now I need to replace my front brakes and have researched it. Both the front and rear brake pads are super easy to replace and probably take 10 minutes without removing a tire so I will now do them myself. The pads are expensive, but a shop is charging double for no reason.

Now I have an oil leak on my truck and a shop told me it could be an upper leak, a leak from rear main seal, or a leak from the oil pan gasket. Since I just did work on the upper part of the engine I know it is not leaking there. I think it is the the oil pan gasket, but this job doesn’t look easy. I just have to decide if I want to tackle it.

I just wish shops would be honest about things and charge a reasonable price, but I know that wish is silly. Okay, that is my rant. I know when I do it myself I am doing it absolutely right and taking care of everything else along the way.

In reading your post, the first couple things which pop in my head are:

Overhead, wages and the probability in which you've never operated a business.

People who have the luxury of working for others, have no clue as to what it takes to cover all the business expenses.
You'd probably be surprised as to what your boss charges in order to cover your wages and benefits, while also covering all the other daily business expenses.

My biggest issue is not really the cost (unless they are truly taking you to the cleaners), but the incompetence of the service industry. If they know how to do a good job and DO IT, things would be much simpler.

On another note, I like doing things myself. As you said, you know it's done right and have corrected any issues along the way. It's gratifying when you complete a task in which saved you a lot of money. Even if you must buy a speciality tool, normally you'll save money overall and you'll have it for the next time.

Sounds like you are very handy. Something which is being lost with our younger generation coming up.

I'm not familiar with your truck, oil pan shouldn't be too hard,
rear main seal much more difficult. I would get under it and clean
all the leaked oil off the best you can. Drive it, get back under
and try to verify where the leak is coming from.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:


Sounds like you are very handy. Something which is being lost with our younger generation coming up.

I've shown my son probably six times how to change his oil.
He goes to Jiffy Lube. I give up.

I have done nearly all the work on my vehicles since I got my first car at 16. I would guess I have saved 10s of thousands of dollars in labor charges and buying parts myself not the higher price the shop charges.

I enjoy to do it (most of the time) so that is a huge plus as well. I sure would have loved to have YouTube when I first started working on cars.
Certainly a huge help.

The Chilton’s and Haynes Manuals were always a must buy. I have not bought them for my last two vehicles.

Do a YouTube search on the oil leak for your truck. It’s likely someone has suggestions on where to look first and then videos on repairs.

I wouldn’t say the shops were ripping you off, it’s the cost of doing business. They have many things to pay for along with warranty for the parts and labor.

Shops and dealership around here are offering $35-$45 hour for qualified mechanics. (along with full benefits package, healthy sign-on bonuses, relo, etc.)

Still can't find enough help.

I had a car years ago, good amount of miles. I took it in for something, the shop mentioned an ‘oil leak’. To me it was more a ‘seepage’, not even enough to actually drip on the floor.

I had that car at least another 5 years, that seepage was never an issue. I’m not saying to ignore everything, but some stuff becomes expensive electives.

watch Rainman Ray on you tube,he is in south Fla,he works on about everything.He has great tools battery powered wrenches and is fast on anything he works on.

A quick search says the oil pan is not a quick R&R. Sounds like quite a few parts have to come off & you either need to lift the engine or remove a crossmember that runs under the pan.

You have probably a 50/50 chance of the aluminum plate on the back of the block that covers the back of the camshaft and houses the rear main seal as the cause of the leak.

You are going to need the alignment tool when reassembling it also.

I’m with Excam_Man on this one. $130 for the Goldwing doesn’t sound bad. If the parts are $60 and it takes 30 min, then the dealership has $25 in labor, the building, utilities, insurance, taxes. The dealership is lucky if they made $10 on that job.

Some things just aren’t cost effective to have done professionally. My son wrecked his 2004 GMC pickup with 302,000 miles on it, all original (suck it, Toyota fans!). I bought an identical one with 257,000 miles and an engine knock. Turned out to be a spun rod bearing. We pulled the engine, did a lower rebuild (rod and main bearings, rings, rehashed the bores, cam bearings, new high flow oil pump, timing chain and gears). All in all, about $900 in parts. Reused a head from each engine as is after a good cleanup and valve seating.

This is the kind of thing you must do yourself. You cannot pay someone to rebuild an engine. It has simply gotten too expensive nowadays. However, when the automatic door quit working on my wife’s minivan, it went straight to the shop. Same with EVAP leaks. I’m not spending a whole day tracing wiring harnesses when a tech with a fancy scanner can run it down in an hour. A good technician is worth every penny for those fancy computer or electrical problems.

quote:

My current motorcycle is a 2012 Honda Goldwing and figured the oil would be hard to change like previous bikes. Dealer charges about $130 to change oil on current bike. I finally looked it up and it is simple as hell to change the oil and filter. So now it costs me $60 in parts and 30 minutes of my time.

So it’s $70 in labor? At normal shop/dealer prices here that’s probably 1/2 hour or maybe .75 hours. Doesn’t sound too unreasonable since the shop has to pay the mechanic, for the shop, for the liability of something going wrong and having to pay for damages…

I work for a tow company we tow motorhomes and semis, obviously cars too, but it’s amazing how cheap people think you should tow their $500,000 RV with your $750,000 wrecker. Even their cars… between insurance, cost of maintenance, cost of trucks, cost of gas, cost of employees… it’s not cheap. Obviously a tow rope and doing it yourself is cheaper


I do agree with this

quote:

My biggest issue is not really the cost (unless they are truly taking you to the cleaners), but the incompetence of the service industry. If they know how to do a good job and DO IT, things would be much simpler.

They have to earn a living somehow so I don't begrudge them what they charge as long as they actually do the job I'm supposed to be paying for and that it's actually needed.

I used to work on my cars as a young man but I quit after I lost my brakes and hit a car just a few days after having worked on my brakes. And I didn't like how to get to Part A I needed to work on, I need to take out Part B but in order to do that, I need to take out Part C and on and on.

I'll settle for trustworthy and expensive than cheap and untrustworthy.

quote:

I just wish shops would be honest about things and charge a reasonable price, but I know that wish is silly.

Okay, that is my rant.

I know when I do it myself I am doing it absolutely right and taking care of everything else along the way.

Well, as an avid DIY'er I feel much the same way.

However, as a businessman I know you need to make a profit, cover overhead and make it worth your while to provide a service or profit.

What is "reasonable" is vague and is something everyone has to determine for themselves.

The "honesty" doubt part comes from our lack of experience, trust and relationship with the person doing the work.

Do your homework prior to any service needed if your can.
Then you can properly evaluate if it is "reasonable".

Just remember these guys don't work for free and for the most part are honest (some are not) in their efforts.
It may not be cheap but that is how capitalism works.

Like several others, I don't get the shop ripped me off statement based on your numbers.
I've seen some shoddy work and mis-diagnosis and that's something to complain about but the markup?

Good for you StorminNormin!
First off motorcycle servicing and tires, especially at a dealership, is stupidly expensive. Many charge over $100 per hour for a "tech" (who is in reality a $19 an hour, low tech guy) to drain and fill oil or remove wheels and change tires.

I'm no mechanic but 40 years ago I decided to start doing all the basic maintenance and servicing on my motorcycles and cars that is within the scope of my ability (tires as well on the motorcycles) and I still do so. I had most necessary tools but invested in a lift, 2 additional torque wrenches, tire changing tools, bead breaker, balancer, and rim protectors. The reasons include convenience, saving quite a bit of money, and knowing the job is done right. Plus I enjoy working on them and it's a good opportunity to give everything a thorough check over.

I take my 2013 BMW K1600GT to the nearby BMW motorcycle dealer. No worries about cost. I paid $400 for the 6000 mile service. Every mile I ride, I smile.

I enjoy finding better solutions for the 2013 GMC Sierra Denali HD. Today was a good example. Front brake inspection in my driveway on the left side, with all the black brake pad dust, showed asymmetrical pad wear. Most common cause is caliper sticking on slide pins. I ordered professional grade AC Delco rotors and pads and the little rubber parts to go along with the job.

Today we tackled it at work, on the four post lift. Good friend and ace technician did the majority of the work, thank goodness. Boy was the drivers side caliper stuck. The slide pins were in need of serious conditioning, and I was there to do the grunt work of cleaning them. One day I will have to replace them, but for today, I resurrected them. Pitted, rough, but now clean and greased properly. Would a dealer do this? Probably not. They might have replaced them. But, they might have just let them be. I feel better doing the job with the technician, and dealing with those critical decisions. Brake rotors are smooth and the pads are soft, yet they are sized for the HD truck. The effort to do this job right exceeded what I believe the typical dealership technician would do.

And, while we were there, I was able to drain the rear axle of its original lubricant, and refill it with the lubricant I formulated for the GM trucks. It is a strange feeling to put a lubricant you formulated into your truck. It is bright and clear, while the 155K mile old oil is black and lifeless.

So, I have a unique position. I can get the work done at our shop, and enjoy doing it with a technician. I know it is done as well as it could be done. But, without the shop, there is no way. No way. Trying to do this in the driveway? On a jackstand? NO way. The torque to loosen the fasteners, the slide pins, etc. is hard enough when you are standing inside the fenderwell. I would gladly pay a dealer to do this work. I’m glad I can do it at work, for a little less money. It cost me three six-packs. And the parts.

All the way home, I smiled.

I guess my main gripe was two things: #1 Just how expensive vehicle maintenance is if you take it somewhere to be done and don’t know how to do it yourself. #2 Was if a place seems to be trying to get your money by misleading you into doing more work than needed.

The two examples of a shop misleading me is them telling me I had better do my brake pads on my motorcycle while they had the tire off as that would save lots of labor to do it if I just brought it in for the brake job. Well no! Now that I know, absolutely nothing has to be removed to change the brake pads other than a single bolt so that was a complete lie.

The other was about the strange sound from my front tires. A shop told me they would have to maintenance one thing at a time to figure it out and first was to replace the front differential fluid. I did it and that solved nothing. I don’t remember what else they said would be next but when I explained the problem to my neighbor he immediately said to replace the wheel bearings which I did and it fixed it. That same shop for my oil leak told me it could be so many things and they would have to fix one at a time to get to the bottom of it. Their first suggestion was it was from the top of the engine which I found not to be the case.

So it is a shop like that who is trying to get you to do all kinds of repair work that is not needed to make extra money that makes me mad. The second I explained the problem to my neighbor he knew exactly what it was. I understand that taking it to a shop will cost more as they have overhead costs.

Also for those who say if I have never owned a business, I have owned a operated a private investigations company (as a side business) for 17 years. I know about overhead costs, but I charge people reasonably and do not take advantage of people.

There are a few reputable shops providing excellent service at fair prices.

There are also a lot of liars and thieves.