Just curious....I think I have decided to Keep my P220 Carry for the House/Range gun.
Was thinking of polishing the feed ramp and while I was at it going ahead and doing the whole barrel and guide rod.

STRICKLY for the bling factor.....


Also considering doing something with the controls as well....Thoughts?

My feeling is do what you want to your gun and let the chips fall where they may, as they say. Your taste may appeal to some and not to others. I have "jazzed up" two guns and they sold, however, I didn't recover the cost of the refinishing and shipping.

My opinion (and it’s just that) is that very few, if any, buyers will pay extra for amateur work like that, and many will pay only less or avoid it altogether.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
My opinion (and it’s just that) is that very few, if any, buyers will pay extra for amateur work like that, and many will pay only less or avoid it altogether.

That has been my experience also. You narrow your market share

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
...and many will pay only less or avoid it altogether.

This, and it also often applies to refinished pistols as well.

A friend "polished" his 1911 feed ramp and the gun has never run properly since.

It's obviously your choice. However, it ain't gonna add to any resale...probably the opposite.

Second, amateurs have an affinity for polishing surfaces that don't need polishing. In some instances, it can adversely affect reliability.

Third, many amateurs think the shinier the polish the better. Wrong. Again, overpolishing can result in reliability issues.

Personally, I wouldn't pay a gunsmith to polish stuff that didn't need it. Why would I want an amateur to do the same?

The feed ramp should not be touched, unless it has some obvious, major roughness. If that was the case, I'd send it back under warranty anyway. The feed ramp polishing craze started with 1911's back in the late sixties and seventies. But it was for a good reason. That era, thanks to Jeff Cooper, created a burgeoning market in 1911's for civilian SD and competition uses. MilSpec 1911's were modified for use as defensive handguns and for competition. On these custom guns, throating was done to improve reliability with H&G #68 pattern SWC 200 gr bullets. Production guns later came with with throated chambers and ramps polished to accommodate that new-fangled JHP ammo. As far as I know, no modern pistols REQUIRE ramp polishing.

I'm a decent amateur gunsmith. One of the reasons I'm "decent" is that I don't screw with things that shouldn't be screwed with.

I'm not disparaging your question. Just giving an informed opinion.

If finish is applied to a barrel, the slide will not go back on. If metal is removed from a barrel, the slide goes on easier.

I'll avoid purchasing an altered, polished or refinished gun myself and personally don't get the reasoning on striping the finish on Sig bbl.'s or polishing bbl ramps. I prefer to be able to watch the bbl wear patterns.

quote:

Originally posted by fjgiie:
If finish is applied to a barrel, the slide will not go back on. If metal is removed from a barrel, the slide goes on easier.

Polishing a barrel, which I wouldn't do, should not remove metal.

Well certainly I never thought the resale value to go up....just wondering if it would suffer.

Few questions though....

a)Even after only 300 rounds the barrel (square part you see with slide on) half the finish is already worn off, so no protection there anyways
b) If polishing the feed ramp wasn't beneficial (and even the opposite as some have said) then why would it be a service from Sig themselves?
c) If the idea of the rough finish on the barrels is to hold lubricant better, certainly a well lubed smooth surface would be less prone to wear?

quote:

Originally posted by Stilletto:
b) If polishing the feed ramp wasn't beneficial (and even the opposite as some have said) then why would it be a service from Sig themselves?

Keep the customer satisfied. Simply polishing the ramp takes only a couple of minutes, it can’t hurt, and it makes some people feel better.

The question is how does it help? Make chambering more reliable? More reliable than what? More reliable than 100 percent? That’s the question I always ask when some gunsmith advertises a “reliability package” for a gun like a SIG.

It’s extremely rare for standard SIG pistols to not be completely reliable for reasons that have to do with the gun itself. And if one isn’t, then it’s defective and needs to be fixed by the factory.

As discussed, autoloading pistols were not always as reliable as they are now. Back in the 1970s and early ’80s I had a couple/three guns that occasionally experienced failures to chamber because of the rather sharp and abrupt edge between the feed ramp and chamber. Lightly reshaping that edge and making it more gradual and rounded fixed that problem, but it was more than just polishing. I have never had a SIG pistol that required that modification. I did polish the ramp of one SIG barrel, but it was just because I could; it didn’t make the gun any more reliable than the 100% it already was.

At one time I thought that polishing off the finish on the feed ramp might make the area more susceptible to wear and damage, but now I doubt that’s true. Simply polishing off the finish won’t change anything significant and therefore should be fine if that’s what someone wants.

Added: I’ll let Nipper respond for himself if he wishes, but I agree that “over” polishing can cause problems, but that depends on how we define the term. As I say, I don’t believe that merely removing the finish will cause problems (usually), but if people don’t stop there and start removing a significant amount of metal, it certainly can.

I don’t know where the idea that a rough finish is good to hold lube comes from (did someone say that and I missed it?). Rough finishes like Parkerizing can be useful to hold oil to help prevent rust, but as far as I’m concerned, a lubed smooth finish will be slicker than a lubed rough finish; there may be lube in the pits, but I don’t see how that helps anything.

As for the part of the barrel with no finish, if you’re referring to the top of the barrel hood (over the chamber), SIG Classic line guns typically have no finish there to begin with for cosmetic reasons. Although newer barrels finished in Nitron may be an exception, but on the older blued barrels the finish wasn’t really intended to provide much, if any protection. Traditional bluing provides a little rust resistance, but not much.

In any event, my point goes back to your original question. It may have no effect on anything other than looks (opinions vary), but changing the factory finish in any way can be a turn-off for some buyers, and very seldom attracts anyone.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigfreund,

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
......Added: I’ll let Nipper respond for himself if he wishes, but I agree that “over” polishing can cause problems, but that depends on how we define the term. As I say, I don’t believe that merely removing the finish will cause problems (usually), but if people don’t stop there and start removing a significant amount of metal, it certainly can......

I make no claim to direct expertise, not do I have an absolute definition. My frame of reference is two gunsmiths a number of years back. While I'm ignorant of the specific metallurgical changes wrought, I do recall the general caveat.

Some amateurs get carried away with the Dremel and think the shinier the better. While in certain circumstances a light polishing may be beneficial, there is a point where the "over" polishing becomes counterproductive.

First, a Dremel improperly used will generate a lot of heat. I don't know for fact, what that may or may not do the the characteristics of the surface metal. Don't intend to find out. Second, my understanding of the aforementioned gunsmiths was that after a point, it creates a somewhat brittle, easily damaged (but gleaming) surface. Again, I claim no metallurgical expertise. Regardless, I simply don't do things to guns that serve no purpose and run the risk of creating a reliability issue.

As I mentioned in my prior post, I consider myself a decent amateur gunsmith. Since the 1970's, I've never screwed up a project. Primarily because I don't do stupid or unnecessary things. NO, I couldn't do this professionally. I work SLOW and methodically. Think first, research first, do later. Patience is a virtue. It takes me five times longer than a pro so I couldn't make any money. However, It is one of my enjoyments/challenges in life. It's fun when you go about it right.

quote:

Originally posted by Stilletto:
.....
a)Even after only 300 rounds the barrel (square part you see with slide on) half the finish is already worn off, so no protection there anyways......

All of my classic P-series have the same thing. That's for guns purchased between 1995 and 2010. I have to presume they are all normal and the parts are designed to have some minimal contact during functioning. A pistol is a mass produced mechanical product with a number of moving parts. Of course there's going to be some contact affecting finishes.

Hell, my $3,000 2006 Wilson Pro has contact marks on the barrel hood. No doubt part of the lockup. Since it's all SS with no exterior finish, it doesn't show as much as a barrel with a finish. Who cares? The simplest way to eliminate wear marks is to never shoot the pistol. Which is sorta counterproductive. Unless you are a collector, guns are not an investment. More like an expense.

quote:

Originally posted by Nipper:
Second, my understanding of the aforementioned gunsmiths was that after a point, it creates a somewhat brittle, easily damaged (but gleaming) surface.

Interesting. That was what I thought I might have observed with the one feed ramp I did polish even though I have always been pretty conservative when doing things like that. I then decided it was in my imagination, but I did go back and looked at it again. It does appear to be a bit rougher than the several other well-used feed ramps that I didn’t polish. Perhaps I was wrong when I thought I was wrong.

In any event, I’m still confident that polishing the feed ramps of quality guns like modern SIGs is a waste of effort at best.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigfreund,

"Has the feed ramp been polished?" Is the first words out of my mouth on a used pistol purchase. I will not buy it if it has had any permanent mods...

quote:

Originally posted by JDG:
"Has the feed ramp been polished?" Is the first words out of my mouth on a used pistol purchase. I will not buy it if it has had any permanent mods...

Not even if it was done by Sig Sauer?
According to Sig, polishing of the feed ramp increases reliability.

Anyways, the consensus is pretty strong that I should leave it be...and I think I shall do just that.
Perhaps I'll do it to one of my rugers....leave the Sig be

quote:

Originally posted by Stilletto:
Not even if it was done by Sig Sauer?
According to Sig, polishing of the feed ramp increases reliability.

You’ve mentioned that a couple of times now, so I believe you’ve answered your own question despite what others may believe.

As for buying a gun with a polished feed ramp, how would the prospective purchaser know whether it was done at the factory or in someone’s garage? I can’t speak for anyone else, but I would say that it’s an unnecessary scam in a modern SIG and it doesn’t matter who did it.

Added: I just checked the SIG site and the one description of the feed ramp polish I found says is “Upgrade your pistols performance in feeding ….” That may suggest it improves reliability, but they seem to be careful to not actually say that. And actually, I’m not surprised. Suggesting that one’s stock guns aren’t reliable enough as they are isn’t a message I’d want to promote if I made guns.

Further, it always annoys me a little when a company like SIG doesn’t know what “feeding” is: That’s what the magazine does, and has nothing to do with the feed ramp (despite that common term). If polishing the ramp improves anything, it’s chambering.

This marketing crap is just a sign of the times. It's everywhere. Usually done by over paid 25 year old pajama boys in the marketing departments.

Being reality based, it's tough for me not to go bonkers whenever I hear/see it. However, not worth getting aggravated over and taking six months off of my lifespan. I try to be philosophical about it.

Sig is a fine company. However, they're not immune to marketing hype. Sign of the times.

quote:

Originally posted by Stilletto:
Not even if it was done by Sig Sauer?
According to Sig, polishing of the feed ramp increases reliability...

of their income statement.

I agree with much in this thread, and disagree with an equal amount .

If you look at a used but unpolished feed ramp and see streaks of copper, that's metal transfer from the projectile's jacket. The ramp is acting like a file, and that adds friction to the slide going into battery. Polishing the ramp removes that friction. Necessary? SIG made it rough, and it mostly works fine. Your call. Mine are polished.

We could discuss some surface texture holding lube and improving the hydrodynamic lubrication of the surfaces - true, but not a factor on the freed ramp except when putting a dab of grease there while diagnosing feeding problems.

Dremel or rotary tool heat damage? Not at the temperatures involved, hardly more than 150F, I've never scorched a cotton buff. There are lots of alloys, but most steels are not going to be altered until you get well past 5 - 600F, and really beyond 900F. Machining parts with cutting oil (not coolant flow) will see temps at the cutting edge much higher than anything you can achieve while buffing, with no detrimental effect to the part.

If you look at the underside of the slide an inch or two behind the muzzle end that serves as the barrel "bushing" you will see the area responsible for the scratching and surface wear to the top of the barrel hood. Smoothing this area, and the sharp edge of the milled recess (if your model SIG has one), along with keeping a bit of grease there, and vastly reduced hood finish wear and scratches. SIG is a production gun, they are not going to take the time to do this.

Fire away!