Hello all,

What is the 'optimal' distance for brass to drop when the round, recoil spring and hammer spring are balanced?

7-9ft?

10-12ft?

3-4ft?

Or, does it all depend on caliber?

use 9mm standard pressure loads as baseline, and +P will obviously kick out farther.

Although 40 and 45 recommendations are always welcome!!

I always heard about 4-6 feet for a pistol. Here is a link to what wolff springs says.

https://www.gunsprings.com/ind...p?page=FAQ#question3

.

My 9mm and .40cal pistols all put it right where I can see it. About four to six feet away at about three to five o'clock.

My 10mm P220 launches brass a long way. I gotta go looking for it.

quote:

Originally posted by vinnybass:
My 9mm and .40cal pistols all put it right where I can see it. About four to six feet away at about three to five o'clock.

My 10mm P220 launches brass a long way. I gotta go looking for it.

What strength recoil spring are you using in the 10mm? Do you know the hammer/main spring weight also?

I don't really know of an "optimum" distance or the need for such a thing. So long as it ejects reliably, isn't that what matters? My W. German 226 only throws them a couple of feet when suppressed, while my .357SIG P226R chucks them over 10 feet away. Both have factory load recoil springs.

quote:

Originally posted by bczrx:

quote:

Originally posted by vinnybass:
My 9mm and .40cal pistols all put it right where I can see it. About four to six feet away at about three to five o'clock.

My 10mm P220 launches brass a long way. I gotta go looking for it.

What strength recoil spring are you using in the 10mm? Do you know the hammer/main spring weight also?

I'm using it as-is, whatever it came with stock.

every gun ive had throws them a different distance. I would even venture a guess that if you had three or four of the same model and same ammo, at least one of those guns would throw them further or shorter than the others.

I'd say that the only concern would be if the casing just dribbles out the side and falls straight to the ground...

I agree.
Wolff says six feet but they are in the business of selling springs and would love for you to buy multiple springs to "calibrate" you ejection and to replace the spring when it started letting them go seven feet.

I'm gonna say that it's totally dependent on pistol design.

I've got a couple of Sig P238s and a couple of Kel-Tec P3ATs that both sling their brass into the next zip code at warp 3.

I've never understood the preoccupation with the distance a firearm spits brass. It's spoken of as if it means something, or has some significance, when it does not. It's often referred to as if it indicates a firearm's health.

The force with which the brass is ejected, and consequently the distance it travels, is mostly a function of the energy imparted to the slide or bolt when firing, and that in turn has to do with the velocity of the slide or bolt in recoil...and that's a function of how powerful the cartridge is. For a given ejection system (extractor, ejector), weaker cartridges tend to eject a lesser distance, more powerful ones tend to spit the brass farther.

The design of the extractor has a lot to do with it, as does the length of the ejector, but those affect the angle. G19's have a reputation for spitting brass in the face of the user. Change the angle on the extractor slightly (such as the Apex extractor), and that changes. Using the factory extractor, if you're getting hit in the face with brass, use a more powerful cartridge, and it will just hit you harder.

I can put light hand loads in any of my competition pistols, and the brass may dribble out at my feet. A little lighter and it won't cycle. Step it up just a few tenths of a grain, it may drop five feet away. Step it up a grain, may be ten feet away.

I'd be more interested in seeing the brass fall in a fairly small area, if one is standing in the same place and aiming in the same place; this indicates a consistent ejection system, and a consistent loading in the cartridges. Mix in variables such as different types of brass, brass wear, shooting technique, mechanical tolerances, etc, and the brass isn't going to drop in the same place...but should be in a fairly small area.

I couldn't care less how far the brass goes, as it's entirely irrelevant (unless you're standing to my right, in which case you'd probably prefer it goes the shortest distance possible).

For a given pistol, such as a P320, I can load a given cartridge, fire, and see the brass spit six feet. If I decrease the spring weight, the brass may go ten feet, because the slide velocity is higher, allowing the ejector to hit the brass harder and faster, and the brass flies farther. If I increase the spring tension, the brass may fall three feet away; the slide moves slower, the brass travels slower with it during extraction, and it's ejected as forcefully.

Extraction/ejection design and geometry, action type, spring weight, cartridge loading, and shooter technique all impact where the brass goes, but the distance it goes means nothing, except perhaps as a casual reference.

I don't care if the brass dribbles at my feet, so long as the pistol cycles reliably, especially if I'm going for minimum recoil. Perhaps I want to step the round up a little; I want it to be accurate and cycle reliably. I still don't care where the brass goes, whether it's at my feet or five feet away. It just doesn't matter. I've had some very accurate loads that literally roll across the back of my hand as they eject. If the load has accomplished its intent, then good enough. Getting the brass to eject further won't make it more accurate, cycle more reliably, or do anything for me downrange. It won't matter.

SNS3Guppy- some well reasoned points!

I agree with you about the physics of the matter.

There are two reasons I asked the original question.

The first is easy: knowing the 'optimal' distance allows me to 'tune' my .38supers so that I am less likely to lose the brass, for reloading purposes.


However, the second is concern about battery to the frame, and potential damage over the long term.

Handgun ammo is made to such wide ranges of velocity that handguns have to be 'sprung' for the lower end of average, or they won't cycle. Something revolvers don't have to worry about.

Glock G29 and G30 use the same 17lb recoil spring on the same frame, with same slide weight [basically], but one is 10mm and the other .45. Since the slide is basically the same weight, measuring the power of the round is what seemed to give me the best idea of the impact on velocity of the slide.

In researching recently, I noticed most .45 produce ME between 310 and 380 ft/lb. However, I notice the factory loaded 10mm ranged from 390ft/lb [Aguila] to 605 ft/lbs [MagTech]- using the same recoil spring. [yes, there is +P .45 putting out closer to 440ft/lbs, and there is 10mm putting out around 720ft/lbs, but I am only comparing standard factory loads, not ones advertised as hot.]

It seems that this pistol would be best suited to use the lower-end of power factors in the 10mm, unless changing the RSA to a stronger one. this would help both to control it and to reduce frame battering.



What may help everyone understand my question is my explanation of what prompted it: the attempt to find a 'middle ground' recoil spring for both 9mm and .38Super in the same pistol.


I have recently picked up a .38Super P220 and, after some research, decided to try it with my 9mm P226 barrel as well, to make it a two-caliber pistol.

BTW- I am already doing this with a 1911, with the same resuls.

If you read the Wolff ratings, The P220 has changed recoil spring strengths over the past 25 years. The older pistols used 14 for .38Super and 9mm, while the .45 used a 15lb. Now, the P220 45 uses a 20 [IIRC]

I lowered the spring rate on my hammer spring and wanted to compensate for the increase in velocity this would create, so I put the 15lb recoil spring in.

In 9mm it kicked the rounds around 7-9 ft, but in .38Super it kicked them around 12-15 feet [I think], and I lost a few shells in the brush.

So, I upped the recoil spring to 16lb [stock for P226 in 9mm]. 9mm dropped 3-4 feet away but .38super was still over 10ft.

At this point, I realized the idea of a single recoil spring for both calibers was never going to drop the brass in the same spot.

However, it also got me wondering about what the distance 'should' be, to reduce the force imparted through the spring into battering the frame/slide/lugs/etc.

That is why I thought I'd ask Sig owners what seem the optimal distance for ejection of brass- to avoid damaging the frame over the LONG haul.