Howdy, this morning , I was laying on the couch , in the sun , with my cat on my belly. for reasons unknown , I began to think about extractors and what a tough job they have. They take a terrible beating. We expect them to snap over the rim of a cartridge in a fraction of a second , only to change direction and rip out the spent case. It's amazing that the darn things work at all.
Question: Does anyone ever polish the part of the extractor that contacts the case rim , (in an attempt to decrease friction and improve function) ?? Does it help ?
Just thinking out loud...now back to the couch !!
May 16, 2021, 06:40 PM
Nipper
If the gun is reliable, don't touch it. If you're only curious, just check the extractor and see if there are any burrs or unusual wear.
It's like polishing feed ramps. If the gun feeds well, don't touch it. Shiny does not necessarily mean better.
That's my simple minded philosophy. I did polish and stone an extractor on a P226 Sig .22 conversion once. Had issues and after inspecting didn't like what I saw. Polished and slightly reshaped. Ran fine after.
I'm a decent amateur gunsmith. The reason I'm "decent" is I don't fix what ain't broke.
______________________ An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until he knows absolutely everything about nothing. --Nicholas Murray Butler
May 16, 2021, 07:44 PM
Chris Orndorff
quote:
Originally posted by mike28w: We expect them to snap over the rim of a cartridge in a fraction of a second
If we’re talking about Sig pistol extractors, or pistol extractors in general, they don’t “snap over” the rim. The round slides up from the mag and behind the extractor. Keep that breechface clean!
__________________
"Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician." -Jeff Cooper
May 16, 2021, 09:03 PM
mike28w
[/QUOTE]
If we’re talking about Sig pistol extractors, or pistol extractors in general, they don’t “snap over” the rim. The round slides up from the mag and behind the extractor. Keep that breech face clean![/QUOTE]
Actually , I had an acquaintance who was struggling with an older bolt action 22. It was mostly cleaned and kind of lubed ( while at the range) and that helped. I was thinking that if it were mine, I'd disassemble the bolt and chuck all the pieces in my ultrasonic cleaner. And then.....maybe polish ??
Keep the comments coming....I appreciate all of the thoughts !! mike
June 26, 2021, 07:46 PM
bronicabill
As others have already stated, if it works, don't mess with it!
In my 50+ years of shooting and gun ownership, I have NEVER polished an extractor of any kind, and have never needed to! In that amount of time, the number of guns I have owned easily exceeds 100, so were not talking about a small sampling.
Cheers!
_____________________________ Bill R. North Alabama
September 28, 2021, 12:38 PM
rmfnla
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Orndorff:
If we’re talking about Sig pistol extractors, or pistol extractors in general, they don’t “snap over” the rim. The round slides up from the mag and behind the extractor. Keep that breechface clean!
They do snap over the rim if you release the slide onto a chambered round and no, doing this will not "stress" the extractor if it is spring-loaded.
FWIW, polishing the extractor face is often considered a standard part of accurizing.
***** Today, my jurisdiction ends here…
September 28, 2021, 07:54 PM
parabellum
quote:
Originally posted by rmfnla: They do snap over the rim if you release the slide onto a chambered round and no, doing this will not "stress" the extractor if it is spring-loaded.
First of all, I wouldn't close the slide on a chambered round unless I had no choice. In that scenario, the extractor doesn't magically move out of the way of the rim. The extractor bangs into the rim of the cartridge before it snaps over it, spring or no spring, and if you don't know this and don't know that this can fracture the extractor, you're not as good a gunsmith as you might think.
September 29, 2021, 06:45 AM
sigfreund
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Orndorff: If we’re talking about Sig pistol extractors ....
Which wasn’t specified in the original post.
I was educated about SIG pistol extractors by Mr. Orndorff shortly after becoming a member here, but if we were referring to many rifle extractors, they do indeed snap over the case rim when the cartridge is chambered.
Although I humbly accepted the education and admonition about how SIG pistol extractors engage the case rim and have avoided the practice of closing a slide on a chambered pistol round ever since, I have never seen an explanation why extractors in guns like the AR-15 can snap over the case rim thousands of times without damage, but extractors in guns like the P229 or P320 must be carefully protected from the practice.
Regarding the original question, though, after a long apprenticeship, I finally learned that it was always risky at best to modify gun parts that don’t need modifying.This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigfreund,
► 6.4/93.6
“Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.” — Plato
September 29, 2021, 05:12 PM
rmfnla
quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
quote:
Originally posted by rmfnla: They do snap over the rim if you release the slide onto a chambered round and no, doing this will not "stress" the extractor if it is spring-loaded.
First of all, I wouldn't close the slide on a chambered round unless I had no choice. In that scenario, the extractor doesn't magically move out of the way of the rim. The extractor bangs into the rim of the cartridge before it snaps over it, spring or no spring, and if you don't know this and don't know that this can fracture the extractor, you're not as good a gunsmith as you might think.
You are right, it doesn't "magically move out of the way", it rides over it per its original design.
And the reason the face is beveled is so it won't "bang into the rim".
"Fracture the extractor"...
***** Today, my jurisdiction ends here…
September 29, 2021, 05:19 PM
rmfnla
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Orndorff: If we’re talking about Sig pistol extractors ....
Which wasn’t specified in the original post.
I was educated about SIG pistol extractors by Mr. Orndorff shortly after becoming a member here, but if we were referring to many rifle extractors, they do indeed snap over the case rim when the cartridge is chambered.
Although I humbly accepted the education and admonition about how SIG pistol extractors engage the case rim and have avoided the practice of closing a slide on a chambered pistol round ever since, I have never seen an explanation why extractors in guns like the AR-15 can snap over the case rim thousands of times without damage, but extractors in guns like the P229 or P320 must be carefully protected from the practice.
Regarding the original question, though, after a long apprenticeship, I finally learned that it was always risky at best to modify gun parts that don’t need modifying.
The only extractors that need to be babied are the 1911 types that are not spring loaded but are actual springs themselves.
Rather than pivot on a pin they actually flex like a leaf spring and can indeed break over time.
Old wives' tales to the contrary, if it's spring loaded on a pivot pin it's OK to close the slide over a chambered cartridge.
***** Today, my jurisdiction ends here…
September 29, 2021, 05:28 PM
parabellum
quote:
Originally posted by rmfnla: "Fracture the extractor"...
It's a casting, is it not?
I can see you're not going to make it here. You'll just have to trust me on this. Go ahead and laugh at that.
September 29, 2021, 06:22 PM
rmfnla
quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
quote:
Originally posted by rmfnla: "Fracture the extractor"...
It's a casting, is it not?
I can see you're not going to make it here. You'll just have to trust me on this. Go ahead and laugh at that.
A casting? Like MIM? I don't know for certain, but if it is I am sure it is heat treated for durability.
Have you seen many SIG extractor failures? I do hear of failures to actually extract but I have yet to hear of one "fracturing". Perhaps you can point me to some accounts of such?
FWIW, I cut the right lever off the manual safety I installed and it was some seriously tough steel. No reason to think the extractor is any different.
BTW, if "making it here" depends on me agreeing with you you're probably right, especially if you keep posting stuff that just isn't true.
Cheers...
[Edit]
***** Today, my jurisdiction ends here…
September 29, 2021, 06:27 PM
parabellum
Yes, I've seen a broken SIG extractor. You don't know everything so don't act like it's impossible for cast or MIM parts to fracture. I am the owner of this forum, and I do not have to tolerate being laughed at and called a liar, and I will not tolerate it.
You don't have to agree with me and I don't particularly care if you do, but if you're going to call me a liar, you can take it on the arches right now.
Plenty of people have and will disagree with me in this forum, about a wide range of topics, but the master of the house doesn't have to tolerate being called a liar.
September 29, 2021, 06:28 PM
Mustang-PaPa
rmfnla guess you don't know much about extractors on folded slide Sigs then...
September 29, 2021, 07:40 PM
rmfnla
quote:
Originally posted by parabellum: Yes, I've seen a broken SIG extractor. You don't know everything so don't act like it's impossible for cast or MIM parts to fracture. I am the owner of this forum, and I do not have to tolerate being laughed at and called a liar, and I will not tolerate it.
You don't have to agree with me and I don't particularly care if you do, but if you're going to call me a liar, you can take it on the arches right now.
Plenty of people have and will disagree with me in this forum, about a wide range of topics, but the master of the house doesn't have to tolerate being called a it’s liar.
If it sounded like I called you a liar I do apologize. I don’t doubt that you believe what you posted; I’m just saying it’s not correct.
And yes, parts do occasionally fail but trust me, a spring-loaded extractor is designed to allow closing the slide on a chambered round.
And one more thing: I’m a terrific gunsmith!
***** Today, my jurisdiction ends here…
September 29, 2021, 07:46 PM
rmfnla
quote:
Originally posted by Mustang-PaPa: rmfnla guess you don't know much about extractors on folded slide Sigs then...
You mean the ones with with the internal extractor?
I do know that their reputation for extractor failures is a bit exaggerated; has your experience been different?
***** Today, my jurisdiction ends here…
September 29, 2021, 07:47 PM
parabellum
quote:
Originally posted by rmfnla: I don’t doubt that you believe what you posted; I’m just saying it’s not correct.
So, I'm not a liar. I'm just imagining things. Do I have that right?
September 29, 2021, 08:08 PM
marksman41
quote:
Originally posted by rmfnla:
And one more thing: I’m a terrific gunsmith!
Wow - humble, too. What a package.
September 29, 2021, 10:33 PM
rmfnla
quote:
Originally posted by marksman41:
quote:
Originally posted by rmfnla:
And one more thing: I’m a terrific gunsmith!
Wow - humble, too. What a package.
You want humble? See a Democrat.
You want a great gunsmith? I’m your huckleberry…
***** Today, my jurisdiction ends here…
September 29, 2021, 10:36 PM
parabellum
OK, so now that the pecking order is established, you're welcome to stay in the forum if you wish.
